C8 Replica build-plan for review

[Diamondback Six]

I just lost an evilBay auction for one at $90 US a few days ago--next best rifle kit listed is $260.

 

[Diamondback Six]

Also, just to give you guys a heads-up: Brownells has just introduced a bare C7 Upper Receiver in their Retro line, and I've reached out to them to find out if this is a push toward possibly starting to do full Retro C7's and C8's--I've mentioned this forum and the existence of this thread to them and offered to share my own research notes, but I also thought it might be worthwhile to see about hooking them up with some of you guys to directly exchange information and ideas about the Must Haves. (I'll admit I do have a bit of an ulterior motive, I'm hoping they can either leverage BCM to start making Tri-ads again or license the BCM design and crank out their own so I can junk the airsoft POS I have on order as a temporary stopgap.)

 

[Michael Dempster]

Current update: I ended up going with the Odin Works endplate, and I consulted the major finish makers about best fits to mimic Canadian Average Green based on Larry Vickers's rifle as a sample. Duracoat suggested Norwegian Light Green for fresh like LAV's stock or South African Lt. Green for faded/worn like the grip and handguard, and Cerakote suggested Noveske Bazooka Green for the stock. Still waiting for KG Gunkote to get back to me, and once I have recommendations from all three I'm going to ask the pro smith who's helping me with the "can't do in an apartment" parts to give the tiebreaker opinion across brands on.

I haven't read this whole thread but there's a new slingplate and charging handle btw.

ht tps://ww w.gunown ersofca nada.ca/showth read.php/48497-Building-a-C7A2-Clone-and-C79A2-Doctrine

 

[lerch641]

I haven't read this whole thread but there's a new slingplate and charging handle btw.

ht tps://ww w.gunown ersofca nada.ca/showth read.php/48497-Building-a-C7A2-Clone-and-C79A2-Doctrine

Also new castle nut (six dimples instead of four). I've been poking my head into our Weapons shop every now and then to see what new bits show up.

 

[Michael Dempster]

From the other forum:

 

[Diamondback Six]

Any of you guys ever rack on a Streamlight Polytac light out in the field? GG&G down here has a package with one of those and a mount for $55 to my door, and while the mount company is "last decade's news" I thought I'd see if this might work. Otherwise, I have an option lined up on a Surefire G2X I'm looking at.

 

[Diamondback Six]

Project update: BCM upper group on order! Thinking to mount a Surefire G2X light since Streamlight got panned, but trying to decide if GG&G's #1195 mount is suitable or if I should upgrade to the heavier-duty Vltor Scout Mount. Any of you guys who used personal light mounts have any pics?

And a matter I can use some advice on... Retro Rifles has what appears to be a close-to-correct green stock and C7 handguard, but not the CF-green A2 grip or CAR handguard.

Decision 1: Start with everything black and refinish it all the same, or go with the green stock and just refinish the rest?
For reference, here's RR's stock and C7 HG (sorry, these are RR's own pics so they're huge):

Decision 2: For the parts that do get refinished, which shade would you guys go with? The vendors had the following suggestions to match the Vickers C8:
Duracoat - Norwegian Army Lt. Green stock, South African Lt. Green grip/HG
Cerakote - H-189 Noveske Bazooka Green all-around
KG Gunkote - 2402OA Oasis Green or 2402LF Light OD
I have a gunsmith within walking distance who does Cerakote and Gunkote, but it shouldn't be too much more trouble to find someone who does Duracoat. I've even thought of suggesting to my smith neighbor that if he takes me on as an apprentice and has me go through "Duracoat University," I could add capabilities to his portfolio...

 

[Diamondback Six]

Latest update: Upper ordered and due to arrive next Wednesday, LPK due Monday.

 

[Rebel Rouser]

From the other forum:

Long live misterdounut.... LOL

 

[Rebel Rouser]

C7/C8 Sling

Some of the early ones have tags on them

Green furniture set

 

[pipeliner]

C7/C8 Sling

Some of the early ones have tags on them

Green furniture set

Nice to see a complete set! I just got impatient and ordered 3 hand guards from retro rifles and one of their C7 barrel assemblies.

 

[Diamondback Six]

Long live misterdounut.... LOL

#MakingARsGreatAgainAcrossNorthAmerica

Rebel Rouser, I saw some of your old posts at ARFCOM--not a member there, M4Carbine.net is a better fit for me culturally--and those helped shape planning for this.

Just out of curiosity, if type codes AA are C7, AB is C8 and AE is C8FTHB/C8A3, what were AC and AD? I'm starting to work up a "detail matrix" spreadsheet tracking component changes over the C7/C8 platform's years in service that others can use as a cookbook for their own builds. (Including serial ranges for us who have access to custom engraving and raw forgings.)

 

[lerch641]

#MakingARsGreatAgainAcrossNorthAmerica

Rebel Rouser, I saw some of your old posts at ARFCOM--not a member there, M4Carbine.net is a better fit for me culturally--and those helped shape planning for this.

Just out of curiosity, if type codes AA are C7, AB is C8 and AE is C8FTHB/C8A3, what were AC and AD? I'm starting to work up a "detail matrix" spreadsheet tracking component changes over the C7/C8 platform's years in service that others can use as a cookbook for their own builds. (Including serial ranges for us who have access to custom engraving and raw forgings.)

AC and AD were often found on commercial/LEO contract receivers (C7 and C8 respectively).

 

[Diamondback Six]

AC and AD were often found on commercial/LEO contract receivers (C7 and C8 respectively).

Thanks, Lerch--slid those into the spreadsheet under "Notes."

Here's what I have so far, if anyone sees anything needing obvious correction... ("Alternate Private Purchase" is meant for commonly-used alternates.)

Assembly	Group	Component	Detail	C7	C7A1 C7FT	C7A2	C8	C8A1 C8FT	C8A2 C8FTHB	C8A3 C8SFW	Notes
Lower Assembly	Lower Rec. Grp	Lower Rec.	Fences	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	All C7/C8 have A2 full fences
Lower Assembly	Lower Rec. Grp	Lower Rec.	C/N Dates	84-91	98-00	84-91 (rebuilds) 98-00 (rebuilds and new)	85-03	03-??	???	85-03 (rebuilds) 03-?? (rebuilds and new)
Lower Assembly	Lower Rec. Grp	Lower Rec.	C/N Type Code	AA	AA	AA	AB	AB	?AB (rebuilds) AE (new)	?AB (rebuilds) AE (rebuilds and new)	Other Codes: AC Commercial/LE C7 AD Commercial/LE C8 GB Great Britain NL Netherlands N Norway NP Norway Police DB SA15.7/SA20 and lowers DK Denmark DS Diemaco Sales R RCMP
Lower Assembly	Lower Rec. Grp	Lower Rec.	Mfr. Rollmark	Devtek D	Devtek D	Devtek D (?-2012) Colt Maple (2012 on)	Devtek D	Devtek D	Devtek D	Devtek D (?-2012) Colt Maple (2012 on)
Lower Assembly	Lower Rec. Grp	Grip		A2, black	A2, black	A2, green	A2, black	A2, black	A2, black	A2, green
Lower Assembly	Lower Rec. Grp	Safety		Std Milspec	Std Milspec	Ambi Milspec	Std Milspec	Std Milspec	Std Milspec	Ambi Milspec
Lower Assembly	Lower Rec. Grp	Mag Catch		Milspec	Milspec	Norgon Ambi	Milspec	Milspec	Milspec	Norgon Ambi
Lower Assembly	Buffer Grp	Buffer Tube		Rifle	Rifle	4-pos CAR	2-pos CAR	4-pos CAR	4-pos CAR	4-pos CAR
Lower Assembly	Buffer Grp	Buffer		Rifle	Rifle	?CAR H6	CAR Std	CAR Std	CAR Std	CAR Std
Lower Assembly	Buffer Grp	Stock		A2 fixed OR C/S	A2 fixed OR C/S	CAR Fiberlite, textured, green	CAR Fiberlite	CAR Fiberlite	CAR Fiberlite	CAR Fiberlite, textured, green
Lower Assembly	Buffer Grp	Recoil Pad		none	none	CAR ribbed green	CAR ?	CAR ?	CAR ?	CAR ribbed green
Lower Assembly	Buffer Grp	Endplate		N/A	N/A	Left Slot OR Double Slot Curved OR (2019) 90* Bent QD's	Left Slot	Left Slot	Left Slot	Left Slot OR Double Slot Curved OR (2019) 90* Bent QD's	Colt "triangles" on rare C7A2s and C8A3s
Lower Assembly	Buffer Group	Lock Ring		N/A	N/A	4-dimple CAR OR (2019) 6-dimple	4-dimple CAR	4-dimple CAR	4-dimple CAR	4-dimple CAR OR (2019) 6-dimple	not to be confused with M4 castle nut
Upper Assembly	Upper Grp	Upper Rec.	Topline	A2 carry Handle	Weaver rail	Weaver rail	A2 carry handle	Weaver rail	Weaver rail	Weaver rail	1913 rail on some exports?
Upper Assembly	Upper Grp	Upper Rec.	Misc Common Features	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	All C7/C8 have Fwd Assist and Case Deflector
Upper Assembly	Upper Grp	Upper Rec.	Feed Ramps?	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	further research required
Upper Assembly	Upper Grp	Fwd Assist									details uncertain; requires research
Upper Assembly	Bolt Car. Grp	CH Latch				Standard OR (?-2019) G1 Hook OR (from 2019) G2 Hook				Standard OR (?-2019) G1 Hook OR (from 2019) G2 Hook	further research required Various private-purchase CH's frequently substituted
Upper Assembly	Barrel Grp	Barrel		20" A2	20" A2	20" A2	14.5" A1	14.5" A1	14.5" A1 HBAR	15.7" SFW	All barrels 1:7 twist SFW is basically a longer M4 with fat end from FSB to muzzle Simon Sleeve on C8A3 and C8SFW only?
Upper Assembly	Barrel Grp	Flash Hider	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	-->	All variants default to A2 birdcage SEI Vortex G6A4 occasionally substituted; also various suppressor adapters
Upper Assembly	Barrel Grp	Handguard		Rifle; round black	Rifle; round black	Rifle; round green w/ long Cadex rail	CAR 6-hole,	CAR 6-hole, black	CAR 6-hole, black	CAR 6-hole, green w/ short Cadex rail	sometimes found with official or private-purchase KAC M4 (C8)/M5 (C7) RAS
Upper Assembly	Barrel Grp	Tri-Ad rail		No	No	Long	No	No	No?	Short	Carbine Tri-ad is one slot shorter than Rifle

[tr]

Work in Process, working on editing Upper components into the table. Rebel Rouser's codes list added.

 

[Rebel Rouser]

AA C7
AB C8
GB Great Britain
NL Netherlands
N Norway
NP Norway Police
DB SA15.7/SA20 and lowers
DK Denmark
DS Diemaco Sales
R RCMP

 

[Diamondback Six]

GAME ON! LPK's came in today, so while the build is going to start life with an M4-marked lower and a pistol tube for ATF purposes, it's underway. Upper assembly due Wednesday.

Showing the early-style sling plate I have on-hand. (Plan is to have C. try out all the various sling attachment options and decide which is best for her, THEN stake or Loctite once "final" configuration is decided.) Anti-walk FCG pins are not "milspec" but a "personal peace of mind" upgrade--I won't do a build without 'em, and I like these Guntecs because they have a positive screw connection at both ends creating an "FCG sub-frame" rather than KNS only screwing on at one end and tab-in-slot at the other.

Takedown pins are waiting for my batch of Easy-Pulls to come in; "not milspec" but a concession to practical needs since the two halves of these rifles will only be joined when on the range.

Safety is loose because detent is not installed and won't be until "final" green grip is ready to go on. Mag catch is waiting for me to get Norgons ordered; bolt catch is waiting for tomorrow so I don't have to deal with the ill-tempered whiner across the room and the downstairs neighbors. Note Otis Grip-Kit cleaning kit (just like CF!) protruding from bottom of grip.




Gallery at https://imgur.com/a/SBlH4r2

 

[Diamondback Six]

Upper has arrived! Pics go into the album later--still has "interim" parts for the lower, and I have to go see my gunsmith neighbor up the hill about replacing a flash hider because I don't have a vise and barrel block (or even anywhere to set up a vvise in a studio apartment).

 

[Leg]

AC and AD were often found on commercial/LEO contract receivers (C7 and C8 respectively).

Weird. AC is used on the C9 as well. Not made by CC but follows the same format.

 

[Diamondback Six]

Just added the latest pics to the album, from upper unboxing to "test fitting"--Mister Donut's small but very important piece of the puzzle is in there too, as is another anonymous CGN community member's.

It's just a small seed, but you guys have helped plant and nurture it, and in time it will I hope grow into greatness.

 

[Diamondback Six]

Been playing with the paint-mix math again... six-character codes are the hexadecimal values. Large size and bold for better color visibility.
FFFFFF True White
5E664B PPG custom-mix 27:8 Afternoon Martini Olive/Black Magic
5E664A Behr Fiddle Leaf house paint
5D6648 Canadian Average Green
5D6348 Cerakote custom-mix 14:1 H-400Q Jesse James Eastern Front Green/H-242Q Hidden White
576242 Duracoat Multi Dark Green
5D6056 KG Gunkote custom-mix 301:256:256 2402OA Oasis Green/2401AK AK Black/2501 Anodized True Black
5a5e53 Rustoleum 300838 Forest Green
64543D Aervoe Olive Drab (US FS34087)
556B2F Krylon 4296 Woodland Light Green
34643C FS34151 Interior Green (Aervoe Light Green)
000000 True Black

I sorted these by mathematical deviation from CAG's RGB values of 93,102,72, listing the closest fits I could find for each of the major manufacturers. When you guys can't get genuine Diemaco green parts, what's your backup plan of choice to get in the ballpark, or does one of these look like abetter fit than the others? It's been a lotta years since I had to do detail paint-matching in my model-building days, and the ol' eyes aren't what they used to be.

EDIT: After consulting with multiple manufacturers, unless PPG has those two shades in their Ditzler automotive line or aerospace offerings, Cerakote it is--I'm inclined to suggest this Cerakote mix as "next best" for times/places where the genuine article is unavailable.