Canada Ready Big Bore Rifle Build

conor_90

conor_90

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
91   0   0
Location
NW BC
I have been pondering a build of a big bore bolt action rifle that delivers the performance of a hot loaded 45/70 in a bolt action package more similar to the ruger gunsite scout rifle. The questions are: what caliber, and what action to start on. Will it be cheaper than a modified Steyr big bore? and what calibers are possible. Not really interested in loading down the .458.

Something I have been thinking about for a while, and having recently acquired cartridges of the world 14 and reading about the 458x2 American. I feel like there a couple of modern cartridges that fill its niche and could be used for this build.

The best cartridge option would cover the lower 300 grain to 450+ grain range, which makes me lean towards the 450 Marlin. The .444 mag seems like another possibility but I don't see its lighter bullets as much use with the med-bores I have, not sure on the availability of 300 grain bullets.

A lot of options for caliber that are pretty fanciful come to mind: 45 Raptor, 45 Blaser, 50 B&M Super Short etc. But I don't think these would work out so well in reality. The existence of these cartridges if anything validates that I am not the only person who likes the idea of a big bore slightly smaller than the .458 win mag.

Right now I have three ideas, the first two of which are based on hearsay and the third is the advice I feel I will be given:

1) P14 Enfield in .444 Magnum- I have seen reference to this on this on line, all anecdotal, about how a p14 magazine will feed .444 marlin without alteration. I have seen an article from a gun magazine about an SMLE re barreled to shoot .444 but its magazine required modification to feed. I am curious if anyone can confirm that this was once a relatively common conversion?

Seems like a decent low cost option and I would not rule it out if the rumours and legends are true.

2) WSM Action in 450 Marlin- I'm not sure if the magazine would feed correctly on WSM winchester, but I have seen their new model 70's in the less popular calibers for pretty cheap. I have heard it is possible to rebarrel these in .458 and the bolt will work with 450 Marlin chambering unmodified.

Curious if this can be done one any donor actions that are less expensive, or more suited to it.

3) Just buy a 45-70 Siamese Mauser or 458x2 and do some stock work, sight replacement, barrel shortening etc on it.

Thanks
 
I'm loving the 450 marlin in a bolt action, I've been out to 500 yards with it. Factory ammo is pretty decent but in a bolt ammo there's a lot left in hot loads if your into reloading. Factory ammo is a little more than 45-70 bit so is the performance.
 
^you would need a 7.62x39 bolt face. How many rounds of 50 beowulf would a big 10 round AR mag hold anyways? Maybe you could do it with a CZ mini mauser in 7.62x39 with a .223 magazine.

.450 Marlin is miles ahead of 50 beowulf of 450 socom, though I have seen the socom built onto .308 bolts.
 
1250$ at the local gun shop, they have 4 or 5 left they bought cheap from a supplier with an over stock.
 
I'd go 458x2. I have a 45/70 sxs and a 458 wm. Brass is easy as any belted mag case can be used. 300 gr hollow point for deer 350 fn or 400-405 gr for anything else.
The marlin version only has one source for brass I believe and has a wider belt
I've looked into building a 458x2 for a while. Still might as I like the idea of a short heavy hitter and for thick bush it would be nicer then scratching my custom stock on my 458wm
 
I have 45/70s and a 458 WM as well and also looked seriously at the 458X2, but I had so much 348 brass that I decided on the 450/348 Ackley Imp.
Elwood Epps re-barreled a Ruger # 1 for me and I'm really impressed with it.
It has more than my 45/70 and is very close to the 458 if not as much and is an easy wildcat to make brass for..
 
I know this is what you expressly said you're against, but it makes by far the most sense to build a .458 Win, heck forget building just buy a factory one cheap (Zastava). They're not even a powerful big bore, the .458 Win just barely gets to reasonable velocities with 500's, and with your path of 300-400gr it's absolutely perfect. The .458 burns surprisingly little powder for its performance, brass is a simple affair, and it fits beautifully and easily in a standard action. In my eyes it's a no brainer, gives you any power level from .45ACP to .470 Nitro. Anything else seems a lot like the hard way.

Angus
 
I don't know why you don't want a .458 Winchester bolt gun. They are readily available, they are designed to be chambered in rifles with standard length actions, and they already suffer from insufficient powder capacity for caliber, so there is really no reason to down-load a .458 Winchester except for small game or plinking loads. Factory Federal Premium Safari 500s chronograph at only 1900 fps, from my 21" barrel, that's almost within reach of a long barrel .45-70, but unlike the .45-70, the .458 can be loaded much hotter if you prefer, like another 250 fps with that same 500 gr bullet. Better yet, the .458 can be loaded full power with cast bullets, without fear of leading, so its more affordable to shoot than with expensive jacketed or mono-metal bullets. I worked up a 480 gr cast load that chronographed 2200 fps, and the rounds cycled well despite the short nose WFN bullet profile. Mid range loads are fun, I use 30 grs of 2400 with the same 480 gr cast bullet, which produces moderate .45-70 ballistics. But if you were deer hunting, a full powered .458 will kill the deer and you can eat right up to the bullet hole. The .458 Winchester can approach .458 Lott velocities, but the .458 American/.450 Marlin can't achieve the potential of the .458 Winchester. There is no circumstance that I can think of where a .458 Winchester is not a better choice, in a bolt action, than any of the .458 Kurtz cartridges. If you wanted a lever action, then that would be another story.
 
I mentioned in a previous post on this thread that I had a 458 and as Boomer and Ardent have said it really is quite a cartridge.
My BSA 458 will digest any cast bullet meant for my 45-70s from 330 gr. to 600 and with very good accuracy.
Years ago I met a chap hunting with a 458 and he even made up some shot loads for grouse which, according to him worked very well.
Nowadays, most of my shooting with jacketed bullets are 350 and 405 gr., the 500 and 600 gr. are I think all the fun any recoil lover would want..
 
Ardent said:
I know this is what you expressly said you're against, but it makes by far the most sense to build a .458 Win, heck forget building just buy a factory one cheap (Zastava). They're not even a powerful big bore, the .458 Win just barely gets to reasonable velocities with 500's, and with your path of 300-400gr it's absolutely perfect. The .458 burns surprisingly little powder for its performance, brass is a simple affair, and it fits beautifully and easily in a standard action. In my eyes it's a no brainer, gives you any power level from .45ACP to .470 Nitro. Anything else seems a lot like the hard way.

Angus
Click to expand...


I couldn't agree more.
 
Sounds a little like inventing a smaller mousetrap, then trying to handload it to higher performance.

How about stay with a standard mouse trap, the 458wm sounds about right, play with power levels and projectile size, or run jacketed or cast. One could have anything from a low power 45-70 cast load right through a solid elephant load. If it becomes a range toy, one would tend to cast, since jacketed could be pricey. Using cast would probably put you at the performance of your 458 2" or even 45-70.
 
Jammed said:
I'm loving the 450 marlin in a bolt action, I've been out to 500 yards with it. Factory ammo is pretty decent but in a bolt ammo there's a lot left in hot loads if your into reloading. Factory ammo is a little more than 45-70 bit so is the performance.
Click to expand...

I like the 450 Marlin cartridge - i have a BLR in it and you can load it up pretty hot with big bullets - the BLR allows you to seat the bullets out further then in a 1895g and allowing more powder space for more FPS ! jmo RJ
 
Boomer, Kevan, Ardent I think that you have sold me on the .458. Your rhetoric was working wonders and then I saw:

Better yet, the .458 can be loaded full power with cast bullets, without fear of leading
Click to expand...

This appeals to me greatly.

I do worry about recoil, but I think these worries are largely unfounded based on my other firearms. I think the other reports of extreme recoil from the .458 may be coming from the "my 30-06 kicks like a mule" crowd.

This would not be a deer gun in any sense, the intention would be for brush hunting elk or moose, with the dream of woods bison in the future.

As for the "building a smaller mousetrap" idea, lots of factory cartridges and wildcats have tried to address this; maybe it is related to action size and feeding in semi-autos-levers which I'm not really worried about.

What I want is versatility of loads, ability to knock down a bison in thick cover, take a 200 yard shot on a big rocky mountain elk, and the "eat right up to the hole" effect Boomer is talking about. From other sources I have seen people downloading the .458 require a non powder filler and all kinds of esoteric stuff to get a load that isn't elephant worthy. Maybe these folks are, to put it nicely, a little more recoil sensitive?
 
Good call Conor, you'll be thankful you did, no sense pushing pressure in oddballs, and now you have a broader range of capabilities available. Given you don't want to set the world on Fire balliistically, the .458 Win will be perfect. Most consider the .458 Win already too small and short on powder space, it's likely exactly what you're looking for- very efficient, compact. The recoil is also a complete non-event for anyone that's fired a stiff 12 gauge.

No need to get exotic on light .458 loads unless trying to get right down to .45 Colt revolver ballistics, just load with H4895. You'll be able to cut muzzle energy down by around half, safely and within Hodgdon's formula guidelines.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom