Canada Wide Lead Shot Ban

Swans are the main problem and what is fueling this proposed ban especially one lake that is on both side of the border here in the Fraser Valley.

Any assistance in this regards is greatly appreciate. I am hoping to be in meeting again with both side very soon.
 
Lead is hevier than steel plus more sectional density than steel. In short Lead means more clean kills than steel, Steel wounds birds that die later after sufering for days
 
Lead shot has already been banned nationally since 1997 for the hunting of migratory game within 200m of any waterway. This has effectively been enforced. Since 1999,, this ban has been widened to include the hunting of any migratory waterfowl outside the 200m band around waterways (farmers fields, etc) The intent is to protect waterfowl as they are most effected by the consumption of lead shot from the soft floor of marshes and other waterways.

I remain unconvinced that there is a real issue with the use of lead shot out in the woods or outside the range of a waterway. A lead slug for hunting deer is a big hunk of lead,, which even swans would'nt mistake for a nugget of food.

From the reports and studies I have read, there is no issue with lead "leeching" into the environment but only with the pellets being ingested by accident or by mistake.

One would think that banning lead fishing tackle would meet with the spirit of the lead shot ban,, and I would reluctantly support such a ban. It needs to be tempered with reason though. Banning lead sinkers of the smaller size makes sense,, but no duck I know would accidently swallow a 4 ounch monster sinker used to hold down a catfish food ball.
 
Camp Cook said:
Claybuster I can give evidence but cannot give this info openly on the site yet. I have PM'ed you the info though and would appreciate it if you can keep it confidential for now.
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Read your PM. I'm happy to keep it confidential but as I said in my PM in reply it's hardly what I would consider proof.
 
What's the problem with banning lead shot? It is bad for the environment and animals, so just use steelshot, whoop-di-doo. Yes I am aware it is already banned for waterfowl hunting.
 
FM said:
Let us know when you get any more information on this proposal. I would like to help and I am sure others would. A lead shot ban could kill shotguning in Canada.
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I think this is the heart of the entire proposal. Guns are useless if lead is banned, and substitutes are expensive. The hobby will dry up.
 
Nighthawk39 said:
What's the problem with banning lead shot? It is bad for the environment and animals, so just use steelshot, whoop-di-doo. Yes I am aware it is already banned for waterfowl hunting.
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Do you do any clay target shooting? Or are you willing to support any ban that impacts another shooter as long is it doesn't affect YOUR part of the shooting hobby? Funny, it's usually the clay shooters that face that accusation.

Hey why not ban handguns? You could shoot airsoft instead?:rolleyes:
 
Birds are still getting posioned and that's probably where the thinking that hunters are still using lead comes from.
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I can't find it right now, however there was a study done on the intoxication rates in Canadian waterfowl and it boiled down to a very small number of dead birds linked to lead.

There is no question that should a bird chug down a bunch of lead pellets into its belly it would more than likely die. However, most of the reasoning behind the initial ban was not done based on scientific evidence. I hope I can find this study!:confused:
 
Claybuster said:
Do you do any clay target shooting? Or are you willing to support any ban that impacts another shooter as long is it doesn't affect YOUR part of the shooting hobby? Funny, it's usually the clay shooters that face that accusation.

Hey why not ban handguns? You could shoot airsoft instead?:rolleyes:
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I am not a shotgunner other than the occasional round of trap and CAS. I shoot CAS, handguns and hunting rifles for fun, hunting and defense. I fought during the election against the proposed handgun ban and I am now even though it doesn't effect my life in anyway going to start a fight against this future proposed ban.

I will at this time not give anymore info out about which parties are involved. Suffice to say that this will be proposed if something isn't done in the next week or 2.

If in the near future this becomes a non-issue it will be because myself and others that are willing to work with me have been fighting for your rights again.
 
Is this part in parcel with the lead fishing tackle ban, proposed provincially in ontario a while back?

I am no toxicology expert but I do know something about both conservation and heavy metal fate in the environment. Banning lead shot would have no positive impact what so ever. Now getting the additives out of gasoline that would do something!

In the words of the late great Dr. Don Sheridon of U.B.C and PSA fame: "we have to put our lead somewhere"!

It is easy to write reports showing gross tonnage of lead used in sporting arms. And it looks dramatic. But compared to all the lead in childrens toys, christmas ornaments, industrial applications (hit a galvanized nail !) etc etc it is pretty minor and lead shot is simply not very biologically available.(except maybe in ontario where the acid rain ups the biological availability/toxicology)

Truth be told the primer gases, and fuel used in your car to get to he covert/range are a far greater threat to the environment then are the balls of inert Pb that we leave behind.

plain stupidness, but hey that never stopped them before! Guess we'll all have to chip in and buy an old church steeple to convert into a shot making tower!
 
Well, Camp Cook, perhaps if you provided us with a little more information, you wouldn't have to take on the responsibility along with "Others that are willing to work with you". SOOOO instead of deeming yourself and a handful of others as the saviours' of the day, should in the near future this proposed ban becomes non-issue, perhaps it best that you let us all in on this secret? I mean, how are we supposed to anything that we are not informed about? Perhaps if it becomes a non-issue, what it really means is that it never really was an issue? Please, if your going to offer us milk, give us the cookies to, will you?

Otherwise, I wish yourself and your chosen few the best of luck...let us know how it works out.
 
Camp Cook said:
If in the near future this becomes a non-issue it will be because myself and others that are willing to work with me have been fighting for your rights again.
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Or it wasn't an issue in the first place. I'm not saying that it isn't or it might not be but you haven't offered any substantive proof that it is either here or in the PM your sent me.

Now you're saying that if it doesn't become an issue we have only you to thank. :rolleyes:
 
well CampC isn't asking for money or anything guys, just some info to help him /w his efforts.... whether it turns out to be just for his own knowledge or for him to plan a rebuttal of some dumb private member's bill.... it probably won't hurt either way....
 
Nighthawk39 said:
What's the problem with banning lead shot? It is bad for the environment and animals, so just use steelshot, whoop-di-doo. Yes I am aware it is already banned for waterfowl hunting.
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Wow, that has got to be the most ignorant statment I've seen this year.

What is the problem with banning lead shot? It will effectively put an end to competitive shotgunning. The resulting effect on shotgun clubs in Canada would be devestating. It would be naive to think this wouldn't be a snowball effect for anyone shotgunning and for that matter anyone shooting any discipline in Canada.

Please let me know how it is bad for the environment? A significant majority of gun clubs in North America (yes even the good ol' USA) are not shooting into water. Clubs that were shooting into water have been, or are currently being shut down. Fired lead is sitting where it lands, on dry ground, not disturbing anyone or anything.

Brad.
 
Sorry if I sound bitter about this, but I've gone through a lead ban at my range (since overturned), and still have some nasty feelings over it.

Off the top of my head; Lead vs Steel vs other alternate shot materials.

Currently the smallest shot currently available in steel is #7. This is larger than what is legally allowable (7.5max) and significantly larger than what is normally used (#9).

Cost. Steel shot is signifcantly more expensive than lead. Alternative shot is obscenely more expensive than lead.

Availability. There are currently no target loads being manufactured with alternative shot (to the best of my knowledge). There are extremely limited steel target loads available. I've only seen 12ga target loads available, nothing in 20ga, 28ga or .410. This would eliminate 3 of the 5 events shot in skeet.

Equipment. Full length gauge tubes, which are used by 98% of competative skeet shooters are not steel safe (even if there were steel loads available). Reloading equipment would have to be retrofit to handle steel.

Keep in mind that with competitive shotgunning we're not talking about a few boxes, or even a few cases of ammo. 10k rounds/year is not even approaching unreasonable. The financial burden would be overwhelming (call it $1/round for bismuth).

If implemented it wouldn't necesarily be an immediate death to these shooting sports, but it wouldn't take long.
 
I can definately sympathize with your point of view now that I know that bmcrae. Considering the difference in cost you mention, I could definately see a ban on lead shot having an adverse affect on the sports you are referring to.
 
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