Canada Wide Lead Shot Ban

canadian hunter312 said:
i have no idea how much lead is put into the enviroment each year by shooters and fisherman but it has to be alot. you simply cant rule out lead from these sources as a source for contaminating water or soil.

if you look on any fishing/shooting site where this has been brought up you will likely see the first thing people mentioning is the cost of using non toxic.

guess i just have a different point of view because i dont put money before health...
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You have a different point of view because you don't know the facts.

Lead is not particularly soluble. The primary source of lead pollution as has been noted here before doesn't come from lead shot at clubs. The issue relating to waterfowl isn't contamination of the water but the manner in which ducks and geese eat and the fact they consume lead in the process which is harmful to them.

Mandating steel at clay clubs would likely kill the sport. Of the five shotguns I have only two are are steel proofed. The other three become very expensive European tomato stakes in a steel shot only world.

While there is non-toxic ammo in 12 and 20 I'm unaware of anything in the subgauges so that rules out competitive skeet. The ISU permits lead shot so I guess under your "environmental" view of the world our international shooters would have to go somewhere else to practice just like handgunners in the UK.

Reloading lead and steel shot is not the same. It requires different components, doesn't have the same loading flexibility as lead and requires a lot more care in loading.

BTW, if you are concerned about your own health you might want to investigate lead styphnate, a compound found in primers. With the exception of some lead free primers every time you pull the trigger you are exposed to airborne lead. Airborne lead is where the genuine risk to human health comes from not shot. Think about that if you are in a poorly ventilated indoor range.

Again, it's nice to see fellow gun owners willing to abandon one segment of the shooting sports. It's worth remembering the next time someone gets the idea to ban assault rifles.
 
Claybuster said:
BTW, if you are concerned about your own health you might want to investigate lead styphnate, a compound found in primers. With the exception of some lead free primers every time you pull the trigger you are exposed to airborne lead. Airborne lead is where the genuine risk to human health comes from not shot. Think about that if you are in a poorly ventilated indoor range.
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exactly why i dont shoot in enclosed areas...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian hunter312
i have no idea how much lead is put into the enviroment each year by shooters and fisherman but it has to be alot. you simply cant rule out lead from these sources as a source for contaminating water or soil.

if you look on any fishing/shooting site where this has been brought up you will likely see the first thing people mentioning is the cost of using non toxic.

guess i just have a different point of view because i dont put money before health...


:rolleyes:

This is beginning to remind me of that old saw about teaching pigs to sing....

"Don't do it - it's a waste of your time, plus it annoys the pig."

:D
 
popcan said:
This is beginning to remind me of that old saw about teaching pigs to sing....

"Don't do it - it's a waste of your time, plus it annoys the pig."
:D
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True enough popcan. I won't waste any more time on him.

If Camp Cook's threads have done one thing it has been to reveal some profound ignorance among fellow shooters on the subject and how a surprising number of them would sell out shotgunners because they are sufficiently deluded to think a lead shot ban wouldn't affect them.
 
To everyone participating in this thread, I have been communcating with Camp Cook and he is indeed working in our favour here (that is to help preserve the sport). Any other details is up to him to say.
 
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I got 1,100 posts and I learned a few things from Claybuster's answers but nothing from that other fellow.

BT

Well, well, well Nighthawk39 removed his comment about Camp Cook's number of posts when he was ateempting to give him some form of credibility:rolleyes:
 
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Anyone who thinks the danger of lead to HUMANS comes from lead shot is DAFT. It's simply uninformed "couch potato enviromnmentalism".

The VAST majority of lead in the water tables comes from already dilute lead from industrial processes and certen types of Internal combustion Engine emissions. This is FACT, no matter what the David Suzukis and Wendy Cukiers of the world try to make you believe.

The reason lead is banned for waterfowl has NOTHING TO DO with it getting into the water table and everything to do with the birds ingesting the pellets themselves.

Just because you ban lead for use on waterfowl does not mean the same arguement needs to be extended to shooting ranges. If you do that, then say goodbye to ALL lead say hellow to brass solids in all your rifles, zinc in your muzzle-loaders, and bismuth slugs in your deer shotty. It's a short jump from one to the other.

skeet lead just goes into the ground in upland areas. Where do you think it comes from in the first place? (Hint: the ground!)
 
Hey BT and popcan thanks for the kind words. I've learned a lot on this site from many people too.

For the record, I respond with equal vigour when clay elitists start talking about how they'd support a handgun ban or that short shotguns shouldn't be permitted. That's bull#### and when I hear it at the club it usually prompts me to put away my Italian o/u and bring out the 14" Remington for a little clay shooting.:D

I won't toss ANYONE over the side just because I don't share their specific shooting interest.
 
just another thought... I didn't entirely agree with the lead shot ban for waterfowl. I live and hunt in Saskatchewan. A lot of our shooting is in dry fields. Oringinally, I only switced to steel for ducks in sloughs. I shot lead for a couple years after the ban, for geese, and only in dry stubble field shooting. Couldn't see why they banned lead for all waterfowl shooting, a lot of what we do is not anywhere near water, no chance for ducks or geese to ingest spent shot. One day after my lead shotshell inventory ran out, my son and I were shooting greater Candadas near home. Killed a limit of 16 but lost one. I went back to look one last time in the afternoon since I was in the area again anyway hunting sharptails. About 20 yds from where we stopped looking, three bald eagles were eating the carcass of our lost goose. Glad I was using steel for that field shoot. Could have killed three eagles with that lost goose. It changed my persective. In the four years since, my family and friends have used steel to kill about 200 geese per season, no complaints about cost or effectiveness. However, I use lead for sporting clays. The huge difference in cost for 200 shells per day makes me use lead. I don't think there is a risk to the environment to using lead in upland bird or clay target shooting, nor is there a viable alternative.
 
Here is the web site of the group that is fighting to save the swans and demanding that all lead shot be banned in Canada.

http://www.savetheswans.com/

I applaud them for trying to save the swans and I totally agree that the lake should be cleaned up I just don't see banning lead shot across Canada as a way to go about it.
 
For those of you that have been questioning why I would not post more information my response to you is that I was not at liberty to give more information in the beginning. I had been asked by my CPC MP that is personally involved in putting together this lead ban proposal to get information without drawing attention to any of the people/groups involved.

Due to my position as Director of Communications for the Mission and District Rod and Gun club www.missionrodandgun.com (BC's largest and fastest growing gun club) when exPMPM proposed the handgun ban I walked into my CPC candidates campaign office to volunteer in anyway that I could and ended up running the campaign office at the now MP's request. During and after the election I was asked by this MP to become one of his Executive Board Directors. If I was not at his Executive Board of Directors meeting on March 06/06 to meet the board for the first time (so that I can be voted in as one of the executive board directors on March 27/06) I would not have even heard of his desire to work with the enviromentalists to ban lead shot across Canada.

I approached him immediately after the meeting and was given the chance to compile information to sway his decision and possibly put a stop to this proposal.

I have now been given the ok to share the "Save the Swans" web site so I did in as timely a manner as I could.

Due to information that I have already shared he is willing to take another look at this proposal and wants to assure everyone that has been involved that this is now only in an assessment stage.

Here is his last correspondence with me.

"Cam, thanks so much for the information from some of your other sources. It is quite helpful in understanding the issues facing the sport shooters and hunters. Once you receive further information, please pass it on to me so that I can complete my assessment. Also, please assure anyone who asks that this is not at proposal stage, it is my own initiative to investigate these issues in response to the Judson Lake tragedy".
 
Posted in General Discussion
OMG, what is the deal with all the lead bashing? It great stuff! It does not hurt the environment! If it did then the amount of lead that is in the lakes, rivers, forests, and parks already would be killing the environment already. Lead is everywhere. We take it out if the ground, make little balls out of it and then shoot it back into the ground. I see nothing wrong with that picture...do you?

Over ponds where many, many shells are fired, yes, I can see where no-tox shot would help. But chances are, a duck is not going to dive down, dig 3 or 4 inches in to the sediment and then find a tasty little pellet and eat it. Maybe ducks like the taste of lead

Try this, go fire off a box of shotshells over a field and then go find the pellets. Can't find them?? Oh no, that's too bad... In fact, I have gone so far as to throw shot on the ground and return a few days later. No shot to be found! In fact, it was about 1/4" -1/2" below the ground after light rainfall.

I agree with using no-tox for waterfowl, but a complete ban? No sir!!!!
 
I'm new to this forum, Thanks to everyone for the great posts. I currently have a Rem. 870 which I only use for upland birds since it can only shoot lead shot.
 
Here's the latest drival from the fellow that is trying to get lead shot banned.
This is a letter published in the local paper @ http://www.abbynews.com/ click on letters in the top menu bar to find the letters that I posted below.

It’s time to get the lead out

Mar 30 2006

Editor, The News:
Thank you for once again bringing our attention to the recurring mass swan die-offs in our area.
The article by Trudy Beyak (March 25) is much more than an update as it brings to light a most significant revelation.
I am referring to the quote stating that “researchers, however, agree with Sinclair, and argue that government agencies in Canada and the U.S. must immediately ban hunters from using lead shot.”
It is apparent that, forgetting whether Judson Lake is the mysterious “hot spot” or not, an overarching problem exists in the needless continued loading on the environment of toxic lead shot from hunting and shooting activity.
The existing partial ban on lead shot use in B.C. provides little consequence because swans and other wildlife continue to ingest lead shot in fields where it is legal to use lead shot, as well as in wetlands.
Now comes the plea. Dear reader, without your involvement this necessary ban will never happen. The CWS needs your support!
The reality is that legislators will not act without mass confirmation that they are moving in accordance with the pulse of the general public.
The manufacturing companies have long ago made the transition to non-toxic ammunition and currently offer a broad array of effective and affordable substitutes, some of which even outperform lead.
A ban on the import, manufacture and sale of toxic lead shot is a no-brainer and is in the best interest of society and its wildlife, but it will not happen anytime soon without your involvement.
Please make a difference by contacting Environment Minister Barry Penner at barry.penner.mla@leg.bc.ca and urging him to introduce legislation completely banning the spread of lead shot contamination in our province.
Also, please contact Ed Fast at Fast.E@parl.gc.ca, urging him to do the same at the federal level.
Together we can turn this around!
Kevin Sinclair
Abbotsford




Here is my letter that was published today in response to the drival above as well as I have sent to both Barry Penner and Ed Fast at least 24 pages of web links, comments from many on this and other forums, and from people in the USA.

Take a shot at cleaning environment

Apr 01 2006

Editor, The News:
I compliment and totally respect the efforts to save the swans in the Judson Lake area of the Fraser Valley but I feel that the emotional appeal to ban lead shot in Canada is misguided and will have no effect on the future of these majestic animals.
The use of lead shot for hunting water fowl was banned in Canada in 1999 and, as acknowledged by Mr. Kevin Sinclair on his Save the Swans website, will not have any real new effect in stopping the future deaths of these water fowl due to the lead shot already present in Judson Lake.
Unfortunately, lead was used for hunting water fowl over water for generations before this problem was realized, but we must understand that the lead shot that is being found in these birds is already present and there is no proof that hunters in Canada are still using lead shot.
May I suggest that we follow the example of our new Conservative federal government in their decision to not ban handguns in Canada like the Liberal party wanted to do but instead get tough on crime and criminals by supporting our police officers and implementing longer jail terms.
I suggest that we call on our different levels of government to support enforcement of the current lead shot ban by supporting our conservation officers more financially, resulting in more enforcement officers in the areas that are affected.
Fines should be increased and maybe even jail terms implemented for those who are using lead shot in the hunting of water fowl.
The increased fines would pay for the extra enforcement costs and would prove that some hunters are still using lead shot.
If they do not find anyone using lead shot, we would know beyond any doubt that hunters are not using it anymore and that banning it in Canada would have no effect in preventing the future deaths of these magnificent swans.
Lead shot is being used safely across Canada at gun clubs in many different shotgun shooting sports, including Olympic-level competitions.
There have been many studies that have shown the use of lead at gun clubs does not affect our waterways or water fowl in any way. Actually, more lead has been leached into our waterways by the use of paints that contain lead and are used in painting the lines on all of our roadways.
Also, lead is still being used in many industries around the world so maybe we should be directing our efforts towards stopping industry from polluting our environment.
Let's get together and work to clean up our environment so that no future deaths occur.
Cameron Cooke
Abbotsford

NFA member
SASS member
RFOCBC member
BC Wildlife Federation member
Wild Sheep Society of BC member
CPC member Executive Board Director, 3rd Vice President Abbotsford Electoral District
Mission & District Rod & Gun Club member and Executive Board Director, Director of Communications
 
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