Colt Canada rifles to the public?
- Thread starter TimberWolf_3063
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Why would they if as it seems by this thread people are willing to buy and justify the price.
This reminds me of the Leupold CQBSS scope, when it came out it was around $4500, and there were people there to justify its cost too. A few years later they dropped the price $1500 because of "production efficiencies", Leupold has been making scopes for over 100 years you'd think they'd have their efficiencies all sorted by now. Please, was nothing more than price gouging that went south and once they figured not many we're falling for it they changed the price.
Canadians pay more because they accept it, not only accept it but some will actually justify it.
OccasionallyOnTarget
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Burnaby, BC
Well, if these all sell at this price, then they are not "overpriced." Overpriced is when they don't sell. Overpriced for you, yes. Overpriced for me, yes. Overpriced generally, well, obviously not.
You are always gonna find people willing to buy a product at an outrageous price. You won't sell as many, but you will still sell. However, you make the most profit when you sell the most products at the lowest price possible as is the case with the Wal Mart Colts.
Obviously....
Sigh.
The point that flew over the CGN heads was that other than sharing a name (technically the don't since one is Diemaco) they can't be compared.
One is a tier one operators gun and the other is a bulk run Wallmart product.
I gusss the point that eluded was that one is specific to people that require something top end and the other is Norc'ish for people that plink.
A'la the Cruze being a Wallmart car you either buy your kids to go off to collage or commute in and the Vette being something you buy for it's world class performance.
Or your trophy wife, or yourself when you hit that midlife crisis.
Well, first off it's not more than twice the price in Canada and secondly, do you really not know why things in a Country that has 10X the population of Canada are cheaper?
Are you still stuck on the Colt name making the two guns the same thing or are you now asking two separate questions?
One that has really nothing to do with this topic and one that is quite frankly, "If you don't know, you don't know".
One could answer a question with a question CGN style and ask why is an MR223 $4000?
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
So the Colt rep on Sun News said that the initial offering of Black furniture is because that is what they have on hand. Does that mean this is surplus furniture from before the CAF went to green?
I think that thing's overpriced as well, but it's not a fair comparison. At least one could pretend to justify that markup with the piston system, European import, Free-floated barrel/handguards, trigger, etc etc in addition to German engineering and reliability. If I didn't think pistons on Ar15s were a bit silly, I'd say you'd at least be able to see WHY it's $4000.
I agree and if you read all of my post you would have seen that I stated that these newly available civilian Colts are over priced IMO. If you read this whole thread you would have read another post of mine where I stated I'm buying a new Armalite M15 for $1,000 less then the Colt Canada C7 as a point to how I feel these Canadian Colts while being an excellent AR have been priced to high for a justifiable purchase.
To those comparing the Wal-Mart Colts to these Canadian Colts saying that only the barrel and a maple leaf are the only differences is wrong. However even if it were just the barrel that in it self would be worth a very large increase in price over their U.S.A. cousins what with a barrel of an AR being so important to it's over all performance.
As for the Mil-Spec aspect it is important to recognize that 'ALL' the rifles made under Mil-Spec protocols are being made to very strict and accurate tolerances that may or may not be available to other companies rifles that are NOT being produced in Mil-Spec. This process offers the prospective buyer a higher level of assurance that their rifle will be exactly the same all the rifles being produced and that is worth something more.
The fact that these rifles are Canadian made is something of value to myself personally, why because I'm a proud Canadian and I always prefer 'Made in Canada' to anything else. However being able to own the same AR our troops use is awesome not just because it's a Canadian made product, but because I know personally how well these rifles are built and how accurate they can be. Having served in the Reserve Infantry using a C7A1 I saw first hand how well built these rifles are, I saw them take abuse that I would not expect any rifle to endure and these rifles did it over and over again in the hands of rookie troops year after year. I was also able to manage 1MOA with the standard scope and 20" barrelled rifle at 100 metres with groupings of less then 6 shots, not always, but it was possible.
Now that these Premium Quality Canadian Made AR Rifles are finally here many are complaining they aren't any better then the Wal-Mart Colts offered in the U.S.A. and are not deserving of a higher price, all this shows is how uninformed many on CGN are. I obviously don't agree with exactly how much Colt Canada is charging, but to say these rifles are not an excellent AR is ludicrous. My complaint of the pricing is not because I can't afford it, but because it's just not a fair and justifiable value even as much as I want one and would have preferred they come up for sale in the $1,700 range.
When judging anything the best course is to look at it's history and with regard to the C7/8 rifles their history is exemplary and this is over decades with thousands of operators in all conditions on the planet. Other brands do not even come close to this aspect in comparison which may possibly be the most important aspect in which to base the quality of a rifle. So comparing brands X, Y, Z that have had no actual military use (which is by far the most testing on equipment) to a Canadian Colt is not a fair comparison.
Damn it, the more I write the more I'm convincing myself I am going to have to buy one of these...
To those comparing the Wal-Mart Colts to these Canadian Colts saying that only the barrel and a maple leaf are the only differences is wrong. However even if it were just the barrel that in it self would be worth a very large increase in price over their U.S.A. cousins what with a barrel of an AR being so important to it's over all performance.
As for the Mil-Spec aspect it is important to recognize that 'ALL' the rifles made under Mil-Spec protocols are being made to very strict and accurate tolerances that may or may not be available to other companies rifles that are NOT being produced in Mil-Spec. This process offers the prospective buyer a higher level of assurance that their rifle will be exactly the same all the rifles being produced and that is worth something more.
The fact that these rifles are Canadian made is something of value to myself personally, why because I'm a proud Canadian and I always prefer 'Made in Canada' to anything else. However being able to own the same AR our troops use is awesome not just because it's a Canadian made product, but because I know personally how well these rifles are built and how accurate they can be. Having served in the Reserve Infantry using a C7A1 I saw first hand how well built these rifles are, I saw them take abuse that I would not expect any rifle to endure and these rifles did it over and over again in the hands of rookie troops year after year. I was also able to manage 1MOA with the standard scope and 20" barrelled rifle at 100 metres with groupings of less then 6 shots, not always, but it was possible.
Now that these Premium Quality Canadian Made AR Rifles are finally here many are complaining they aren't any better then the Wal-Mart Colts offered in the U.S.A. and are not deserving of a higher price, all this shows is how uninformed many on CGN are. I obviously don't agree with exactly how much Colt Canada is charging, but to say these rifles are not an excellent AR is ludicrous. My complaint of the pricing is not because I can't afford it, but because it's just not a fair and justifiable value even as much as I want one and would have preferred they come up for sale in the $1,700 range.
When judging anything the best course is to look at it's history and with regard to the C7/8 rifles their history is exemplary and this is over decades with thousands of operators in all conditions on the planet. Other brands do not even come close to this aspect in comparison which may possibly be the most important aspect in which to base the quality of a rifle. So comparing brands X, Y, Z that have had no actual military use (which is by far the most testing on equipment) to a Canadian Colt is not a fair comparison.
Damn it, the more I write the more I'm convincing myself I am going to have to buy one of these...
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To be fair, if you buy an MR223 in Germany it's €2849... $4125.72 CAD
With a flash suppressor and flip up sights (not fagpul but not premium) it's €3377 Euro or $4,890.33 CAD
If you drop a premium match trigger in it, it's another €260 for the Uhl so... we are now at $5268 CAD converted.
It's a fair comparison given the CC has a flash suppressor, sights and uses DI which isn't any worse than piston as far as accuracy goes. Some would even say that the piston system defeats the free float'edness of that barrel.
Basically you're saying you get a different hand guard and pay $2000 for it.
You can pretend all you want but in the end we both know the MR is horribly overpriced for what it is. The CC is slightly overpriced in comparison.
I still think it should have been $1600 and $1800 but that won't stop them from selling all of them. Probably by months end.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
I have had a Colt Canada C7 (2 different serial numbers) sitting in rack number 27 for the last 18 years.
I am very happy that when I release I can now buy my own.
This is a big win for firearms owners in Canada. Next we need General Dynamics 5.56mm available to the public?
I am very happy that when I release I can now buy my own.
This is a big win for firearms owners in Canada. Next we need General Dynamics 5.56mm available to the public?
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Lol this is still going? If you want one buy one, if you don't want one don't buy one.
Regardless of how many of these are sold 90% will end up as a safe queen. The milspec is only relevant to a few people that run their guns extremely hard.
I'm trying to figure out what people are #####ing about. I find these rifles overpriced hence why I won't get one. That doesn't make them ####, nor does that mean I am going to buy some chinese pile of ####.
And to the guy who previously beat the made in canada drum. There are other countries than canada or china. Just because I won't pay the premium to have a maple leaf marking doesn't mean I automatically run into wal mart and buy the cheapest thing.
Value is not the same thing as cheapest thing in the block. This gun isn't good value, hence I don't want it. If somebody else doesn't care and gets one good for them. I'm happy for them.
Regardless of how many of these are sold 90% will end up as a safe queen. The milspec is only relevant to a few people that run their guns extremely hard.
I'm trying to figure out what people are #####ing about. I find these rifles overpriced hence why I won't get one. That doesn't make them ####, nor does that mean I am going to buy some chinese pile of ####.
And to the guy who previously beat the made in canada drum. There are other countries than canada or china. Just because I won't pay the premium to have a maple leaf marking doesn't mean I automatically run into wal mart and buy the cheapest thing.
Value is not the same thing as cheapest thing in the block. This gun isn't good value, hence I don't want it. If somebody else doesn't care and gets one good for them. I'm happy for them.
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LOL
How much does a German pay for an MR223?
That's right. €2849
Exactly what I said they do so, how am I "totally wrong" about the price?
A price is a price regardless of how oppressed the poor Germans are by their government.
Your comments only support the fact that different markets have different prices which has more to do with the stupidity of comparing a Diemaco C7/8 to a Wallmart US Colt.
It has nothing to do with the fact that the MR isn't completely blown out of proportion in it's pricing.
What? Who in their right mind would pay over $700 for a flash hider and backup sights? An A2 flash hider is what? 10 bucks tops? The HK 416 flash hider is the exact some design. A good flip up sight set shouldn't be over $200.
The artificially high prices Germans pay due to legislation isn't what we pay. If Colt Canada Knocked even 300 bucks off the price for not including a flash hider and rear sight, or even the cleaning kit, I would buy one right now.
Yes and no. Just because I think the piston system is inferior and not worth the price tag doesn't mean I don't understand why it would cost more to manufacture, or that it might be preferable in some niche applications. I'd value it at ~$2700-$3000, personally.
Are you actually inferring that I'm defending HK? I think that just about everything they make is huge, overbuilt, heavy and ugly as sin. I don't understand the infatuation with them.
- Location
- West Coast
If I had the money I would place my order tomorrow. Price tag isn't great but it is what it is.
It has nothing to do with Fair market or profit as you think. That is the problem with your comparison. Colt can lower the price if it wants. HK can't really do that in Germany plus in regards to sales in Canada the one importer has a monopoly with the exclusive contracts on that rifle and they don't want HK,s in the hands of civilians and hence why they jack up the cost by a $1000.
Colt Canada has the power and mode say to reflect its price to the Canadian market. H&k does not.
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