Colt Canada's Next Generation Bullpup Prototype

[Shin_Gunto]

 

[Farmboy]

Small armies like ours would be wise to follow what large armies are doing so they don't get left behind.

Small armies that try to run programs that were to expensive for the largest militaries in the world need to start firing senior people.

Bingo

 

[D-Boy]

that what happen when the gun designer/engineer know nothing about gun

If the same people that designed that Eotech mount also designed the gun. You can't expect to see a well designed gun...

 

[redshooter]

I'm guessing not too many of you have worked in, or with an R&D section of a company...The last example is obviously for testing the helmet. A sight hanging off a weapon like that wouldn't even be considered for production. Some Technologist probably whipped that up in a hour or so at the work bench.

As for feeling sorry for Colt Canada...do you really believe some bureaucrat dreamed this up. It looks like someone did some lobbying for R&D dollars. I'm not saying it was Colt, I have no connection with the industry, but the THING in the video looks like a bench test unit..."Not Man Fireable" = test unit.

If we could see how this started I'd bet the farm it was some industry rep whispering in the ear of someone with influence...That or acid has made a comeback big time in Ottawa!

Tax payers dollars being wasted, can't argue with that...

 

[KevinB]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-has-plagued-by-problems-goverment-disagrees/


I'll just leave that there and step away

I will say the Korean disaster is at least lighter and more ergonomic.


*Edit
I do not think for one second Colt Canada had any part in the concept development, it is being driven 110% by the 'good' folks in DND who have PhD's and such, but no concept of soldiering.

 

[greentips]

If we all read the below:

Finally, the development of the integrated weapon prototype and the continuing analysis of promising technologies should facilitate the acquisition of the next generation of small arms by the CAF. The data collected and the analyses documented so far by DRDC scientists will be used in conjunction with the data and analyses that will be generated in the FSAR project to develop the technical criteria that will form part of the statement of operational requirement documentation for the CAF Small Arms Modernization project.

Sounds like this is just made to "explore" technology so they can figure out what will go into the "statement of requirement" of the next small arms. Why are we pissing away money to "explore" something that has been already explored by the US, the Korean....and even the frigging Singaporian?

 

[Colin]

Not super interested in what the IDF thinks...

The serious shooters there are using M4s anyway.

As I recall weapon type issued is dependent on the brigade you are with and the IDF hopes for a complete switch by 2018.

from wiki

In November 2009, the IDF announced that the Micro Tavor (X-95) would become the standard infantry weapon of the IDF, with the addition of an integrated grenade-launcher.[15]
In December 2012, the IDF announced that they would begin equipping and training their new reserve forces with the TAR-21, starting in 2013, with the switch-over by 2018.[29]

In 2014 the IDF announced that in the future (from as early as the end of 2014) some infantry units could start to be issued some numbers of an improved Micro-Tavor, which will have a longer 38 cm barrel (instead of the original 33 cm barrel of the X95), a lighter trigger pull, and a number of other upgrades.[30]

 

[r34skyline]

why not just buy some tavors from IWI?
or even better yet desert tech mdr!

I have respect for Desert Tech, but the MDR 1) is an unproven design and 2) doesn't do anything our c8s and c7s don't do.

While we as civilians get wallet raped endlessly for tavors you do know the IDF opted for the tavor because it was a budget option when compared to going with a new procurement of colt m4 or hk416 or SCAR etc right?

Contrary to civilian costs the colt m4 and its canadian c8 variants are actually quite expensive on the front of mil contracts. We already have the better rifles. Why dump them for another countries budget solution?

WTF LOL I can't even.

that what happen when the gun designer/engineer know nothing about gun

If the same people that designed that Eotech mount also designed the gun. You can't expect to see a well designed gun...

I'm sorry I thought that would be some parody thing like the ultimate tacticool ar15, but no this is actually a thing.


On a serious note, now that oil prices have fallen through our floor where are we getting money to fund this lump of siht? From what I am hearing from current serving members, they hardly get any ammo for live fire excercises. Why isn't that money going to this not going to the ammo factory for MOAR c77 for everyone.

 

[Grunt21]

Not surprised in the least at this

We had a bunch of 2LT scientists/human dynamics or whatever they were come to our BN after we got back from tour years ago. I had the fun of sitting in on their suggestions for the following weapon systems:

A new rifle for naval boarding parties

A new PDW for tank crews and cbt svc support types (ie FNP90 type weapon)

A new rifle for the army

They had a braingasm when I told them they can make it cheaper and simpler if they just adopted the C8 for the army complete, with a 10.5 inch barrel for the PDW and naval boarding parties, and 16 inch barrel for the Infantry. Parts and ammuntion, training commonality and all. That would be way too cost effective and KISS apparently.

We then got into semantics over 16 inch barrels being "less accurate" and not being able to apparently "shoot as far", and how a quad rail would be better better then the POS triad rail. They didnt even know a light, laser and VFG is pretty standard now and shoving all that crap out front on the ####ty triad ####s up the balance of the weapon, not to mention if you have the POS CF 40mm GL mounted on the C8A3 good luck mounting your PEQ/PAQ and light.

The whole concept of a variable power optic, and the fact that we dont need a bayo lug anymore was also lost on them but not surprisable.

Edited cause: Holy ####, I just googled it and found a picture of that piece of ####, what the #### were they smoking? Why do they run these ####ing research groups if they dont ####ing listen too us end users anyways?

 

[Rebel Rouser]

I would of been impressed if it shot frickin' laser beams...

 

[CV32]

Looks like a brad nailer and an Electrolux got together and made the beast with two backs.

 

[Cpt.Flan]

Sweet jesus... Just give us all a C8A3 modular (rails) free floated hand guard and be done with it. Also it will save us money on the overall changes cost ( parts, training, gun tech, etc... ) to finally change that stupid WW2 pistol of ours.

####...

 

[KevinB]

Idiots abound more in public service than anywhere.

The issue arises part in the CF, as their is no true 'Combat Developer' course -- the Tech courses for Officers and Warrants make them technically 'smart' - but do not often tech them how to articulate a requirement into an actual requirement document.

Second issue comes home to roost when folks are picked for positions that they have zero experience with - and believe that education over experience is preferable.
According to the Human Systems folks, the Tac Vest was outstanding...
Of course they did not understand things as a system, or how the soldier fights.

I feel the good idea fairy has come home to roost in this one. Years ago I was a big fan of the M203 (and Masterkey shotgun) to mount on a weapon. Experience with the systems allowed me to understand that adding the capability was done at a large weight and ergonomic effect to the host weapon - a weapon that was the primary tool.

I believe what has happened is that the desire to allow a soldier to use a Grenade Launcher and "increase" section firepower has been lost on the fact that the GL has a limited role - and is best used as a stand alone device. Folks seem to like the concept of the OICW in theory --but they fail to understand the implementation of the weapons, soldiers, and larger units.

 

[Sinasta]

Small armies like Denmark that outfit their soldiers with kit from Tyr Tactical or Netherlands with Ops Core.

While Canada pats itself on the back with such "innovative" garbage.

 

[woodchopper]

Oh this will work great with the powered battle armour jump suits

(read the book starship troopers, don't watch the movies)

 

[redshooter]

(read the book starship troopers, don't watch the movies)

The movie was terrible compared to the book. Never mind this crazy experiment...AI is here and we're meatbags that will likely really piss it off. Forget 5.56, we need rail guns!!!!!

http://thetruthpodcast.com/Story/Entries/2012/3/20_Theyre_Made_Out_of_Meat.html

 

[ipscgraz]

Maybe somebody had a few extra beer and played Halo or COD etc. and thought this was a cool concept.

 

[Grunt21]

Idiots abound more in public service than anywhere.

The issue arises part in the CF, as their is no true 'Combat Developer' course -- the Tech courses for Officers and Warrants make them technically 'smart' - but do not often tech them how to articulate a requirement into an actual requirement document.

Second issue comes home to roost when folks are picked for positions that they have zero experience with - and believe that education over experience is preferable.
According to the Human Systems folks, the Tac Vest was outstanding...
Of course they did not understand things as a system, or how the soldier fights.

I feel the good idea fairy has come home to roost in this one. Years ago I was a big fan of the M203 (and Masterkey shotgun) to mount on a weapon. Experience with the systems allowed me to understand that adding the capability was done at a large weight and ergonomic effect to the host weapon - a weapon that was the primary tool.

I believe what has happened is that the desire to allow a soldier to use a Grenade Launcher and "increase" section firepower has been lost on the fact that the GL has a limited role - and is best used as a stand alone device. Folks seem to like the concept of the OICW in theory --but they fail to understand the implementation of the weapons, soldiers, and larger units.

The worst part is they are thinking of implementing this monstrosity, when a quick check of things just south of our border would indicate the americans are issuing a much smaller 40mm launcher that can be stand alone or mounted on the weapon depending on user preference.

Instead of dicking around with this crap, we should just issue 1 soldier/section something like that south african milcorp 6 shot repeating 40mm launcher and a short C8 for self defense.

 

[owlowl]

We are still buying F-35, compared to that cluster fck some new rifles are peanuts.

 

[xdmer]

Sounds absolutely crazy to me. If there is one thing our Government is good at, its throwing good money at bad.

That thing uses the telescopic ammo that the US was developing for the SAW. Last I heard the US has stopped funding the telescopic ammo powered SAW.

Yes, if they are including the ammo load out, there might be a chance it could happen - but then it carries 3X40mm.

Anyways, that is the 1 billion dollar project. Well, you can buy 50,000 new IUR, laser, day otpic, eagle GL and other stuff for probably 300million.....I don't know how people come up with a positive NPV with this thing.