Colt HB match Ka- boom

Reading the back of the box of ammo "This product has been designed for 1 in 9 or slower twist barrels"

FO 040627
Carton No.
C502A
E125247
K7077

Barcode
20892 21241

Seems there must be different lots of this ammo out there, becuase I got 40rd packs, and its Stamped with the Velocity.
 
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I have fired 55 gr 223 ammunition that was pushed back into the case and all it did was fire like it should have fired bent cases both at the shoulder and the body they all fired with no damage to the Rifle .I have accidently overcharged a 223 case and yes there were signs of overpressure but no damage like this
 
I've fired some of the Winchester 45 gn HP ammo (as shown in this thread) and I had several occasions where the round got pushed back into the case when it hung up on the feed ramp.

I ended up firing the remaining rounds (about 140 or so that I had on hand) by dropping them into the chamber, dropping the bolt on them, firing, and repeating.

The ammo I had pushed back into the case was disposed of via soaking.

I would lean towards the Flashover as described by Savage up above.

A significantly reduced charge will result in all the powder being flat on the base of the case, instead of being in a horizontal column as it usually is. The powder burns from top down, instead of getting pushed out into the barrel from behind as it burns.

Excessive pressure is indicated here by the amount of flow back into the ejector plunger hole.

YMMV, but I point a finger at the ammo.

The magazine is a non-starter.

The rifle had been firing successfully for a while before this occured (as mentioned) so I don't really point a finger at the rifle.

Does any of the other brass from your session exhibit any pressure signs? (Brass flowing back into the firing pin recess or ejector plunger hole)

Please keep us advised of any communications you get from manufacturers....ok?

Oh, and I think I speak for all of us when I say I'm glad you're OK!!!

NS
 
I would have to agree with Savage and NavyShooter that it most likely a case of the cartridge being under charged exposing the primer hole and igniting a greater area of powder all at once.
 
i havent looked at the other brass yet. the boys cleaned up the range and its all hear in a bag. i will look, but the rifle gave no indication that there was any extra preasure(kick) or loudness. this was the last of the ammo for the day, preveiously i had been shooting swiss through it.ill have a look at the brass tomorow.
was on the phone for a bit today, couldnt get hold of WW olin, all out till jan 2. i didnt even bother tyrin colt, as i figured that it would be the same there.
belive it or not, i have the remains of the primmer to. it was inside still when i got the guts fought apart.its not as bad as you would think, kinda blown out the side.
and i still feel lucky today. havent decided if i should buy a lotto ticket,or if i used all my luck up for the month/year
ill have to post a pic of the shooting bench, where the bottom of the carrier went through the top of it.
BTW, i took a round of that ammo today, and tryed to push the bullet inside the case by turning it up on the bullet, and push downon the table top.could probably have done it with extream force. as for pushing it in with my thumb, not a chance, and i have a big thumb
 
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Jesus..you are a very lucky person Beater.
If you want the pics posted on ar15.com let me know and I'll post them for you..I'm on dsl so it won't take me long.
 
That 45gr stuff is really hot, flattens the primers right out. I can't use it in mine because it hangs on the feed ramp. If it pushed the bullet in just a bit the pressures would be brutal like others have suggested. I only use ball or Vmax with a factory crimp in mine.

Brian
 
B, don't turn over any of the parts of the ammo or gun to either the ammunition manufacturer, or the firearm manufacturer without speaking with legal counsel. If the said parts/pieces are given to either, you will never see them again, and of course their own tests revealed that it was not their fault. Therefore eliminating any possibility for an independant examination should one be required.
 
lcq said:
That 45gr stuff is really hot, flattens the primers right out. I can't use it in mine because it hangs on the feed ramp. If it pushed the bullet in just a bit the pressures would be brutal like others have suggested. I only use ball or Vmax with a factory crimp in mine.

Brian
Click to expand...

Says 3600fps, Now I dont know what barrel length they used to get that velocity but thats quite high. I remember MuskyHunter getting 2400+ FPS using his 11.5" and 55grn, I suppose that same ammo out of a 20" be ~ 2800FPS.


Now Beater they might not replace because says on the box about it being made for 1-9 twist. Thet might say well it was your fault.
 
I don't know if this has any connection to your incident, but when I saw the Winchester stamp on the cartridge it got me to remembering something, so I went and did some checking.

Back in 2004 at one of the AR Armorers courses I attended in the US, there was a warning being passed to all law enforcement agencies about a problem with Winchester Q3131 ammunition. Apparently this ammunition was having primers "backing out" and there were various reports, including the type of thing you seem to have experienced. This is in my notes from the Armorers course presented at the IALEFI Annual Training Conference, Ohio, June 2004.

If that is the ammunition you were using then this might be the source of your problem. Just a thought...

Mark.
 
You are a lucky guy in your unlucky situation! Glad you are not hurt. This is a sad situation.
Question : ( defects excluded ) to blow a gun apart like this extreme pressure is required. Any possibility that you had a barrel obstruction?? Any malfunction before that last round ??? There is not much room in a 5.56 case for a double powder charge . Those rounds are usually full - 23-25 grains of powder. Wrong powder would do that.

This need expert inquiry to avoid this occurence to happen again. Any plan to send the gun to Colt or Winchester for investigation ??
 
flinch?........FLINCH????.........good one HD. havent shot anything since
i must admit i was feelin a bit ill about it more so today.
i must be missing something. where on the box does it say anything about 3600fps ? i actually put some over the cronny, was curious, 3300
also where does it say anything about NOT useing it in an AR, or any other kind of rifle for that mater?.
as for primmers backing out and all that, i took the ammo out of the box and put it on strippers before i went to the range. i certainly didnt catch anything amiss then.
as for bbl obstruction, i dont think so. this was the last round of the 5 in the 20/5 mag. ill try takin a pic of the bore, its perfect, i couldnt find one blemish. notta.
Brian
 
Beater said:
flinch?........FLINCH????.........good one HD. havent shot anything since
i must admit i was feelin a bit ill about it more so today.
i must be missing something. where on the box does it say anything about 3600fps ? i actually put some over the cronny, was curious, 3300
also where does it say anything about NOT useing it in an AR, or any other kind of rifle for that mater?.
as for primmers backing out and all that, i took the ammo out of the box and put it on strippers before i went to the range. i certainly didnt catch anything amiss then.
as for bbl obstruction, i dont think so. this was the last round of the 5 in the 20/5 mag. ill try takin a pic of the bore, its perfect, i couldnt find one blemish. notta.
Brian
Click to expand...

AmmoBox002.jpg


AmmoBox001.jpg
 
Robert - that MV is likley from a 26" Boltgun - what most manufactueres use for .223 and .308 factory velocities.

I would lean on the issue that Navy addressed - I think it is clearly an ammo issue -- I would speak to both the Colt (R.Nichols) and Winchester Ammo distributor in Canada (R.Nichols????)

FWIW - bullet setback is a dangerous issue in AR's - the US went to the cannelured 77gr SMK due to this issue in the Mk12 SPR - but the 45gr bullet at SAAMI loaded pressure is no where near as long as the 77gr so the chances of it being dangerously set back are less than the 77gr loaded to NATO pressure.

The Bolt locked or it would not have failed in that manner.


IF it is posted at ARF in troubleshooting look into TWEAK's posts.

I'd be looking for Winchester to buy you a new Colt and a few lots of ammo for this one.......
 
there is nothing like that on my box of ammo. mine is a 50 pac aswell, not a 40 pack. there is a pic of it there, up.i wrote everything for numbers on my box, back a bit. lot numbers and such.hear is a pic of the side of the box, i dont have one of the top, ill get one and post it today aswell.

Picture041.jpg


Picture054.jpg
 
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