Your assuming that everyone else is like YOU ... I too feel I would be a responsible if I could (and decided to) carry a sidearm, but you have to consider the many nut cases out there ... this ain't just about you and me!
6Gun
Concealed Carry in Canada....
- Thread starter Newfoundlandrover
- Start date
Your assuming that everyone else is like YOU ... I too feel I would be a responsible if I could (and decided to) carry a sidearm, but you have to consider the many nut cases out there ... this ain't just about you and me!
6Gun
The US stats for states with CCW laws show that the rate of recidivism (criminal misuse of handguns) is no worse and slightly less than jurisdictions that disallow CCW. The law makers were hoping for the reverse and were disappointed.
As for the nut bars out there packing illegally, laws sure work, don't they? What gun laws do they have any regard for? It's just the law-abiding that are affected.
As for the nut bars out there packing illegally, laws sure work, don't they? What gun laws do they have any regard for? It's just the law-abiding that are affected.
Yet you freely admit you don't trust them to carry a gun while going about their daily business. To me that means you don't trust them and are afraid of them doing something stupid, dangerous or aggressive.
You have a significant reading comprehension problem. Nowhere did I say I NEED a gun. I said neither you nor the government have the right to decide for me if I want to carry one or not.
I am pointing out that all the things you are afraid of DO NOT happen in the US. This has nothing to do with crime statistics and everything to do with you using emotions instead of reason. You FEEL that it would cause problems and people would do stupid/dangerous things if they carried. Well, I can PROVE that doesn't happen. We have mountains of data that show CCW causes no problems and may even reduce violent crime rates. There are no studies on CCW in Canada because it doesn't exist here.
Exactly. So how does me carrying bother your nose? I'm not saying you have to carry, just that you have no right to tell me I can't.
You are welcome to your opinion, but at least be honest enough to realize that it is based on emotion and fear and that reality says you are 100% wrong.
Once again, using EMOTION instead of REASON. Decades of data from the US shows this simply isn't a problem. The nut cases already carry guns if they feel like it, we are talking about arming the honest citizens, not the scumbags. In case you didn't realize it, there are millions of good people out there and only a few thousand nut cases. Why let the potential actions of a few idiots dictate what the millions of good people are allowed to do?
Mark
Supposable, but they still have enough info from your PAL.
I'm sorry I didn't mention anything the marginally intelligent average person didn't already know. If you honestly believe that no one other than LE or bad guys are packing heat, you live in a fantasy world. As for disregard for the law I have a question for you. If you or I or even the local drug dealer carry a gun all day everyday, and no one gets shot; where's the victim??? Who was harmed by such actions? Its not a question of being "above the law" its a question about which laws are relevant and useful. Sadly most feel compelled to follow all laws, even though it is the citizens who should be determining the laws and questioning those that are ineffective.
Could you please indicate where in my post I said that I carry a firearm outside the range??
TDC
That's the problem, it is about you and me. Why should how you feel impact my rights?
If you don't want to have rights that's your problem but don't restrict other peoples rights because you would feel uncomfortable.
DEAL WITH IT.
A marginally intelligent person wouldn't carry a handgun illegally in Canada. You do not decide what laws are relevant or useful, a judge and two lawyers do, and I can assure you, you will be harmed by your actions, should you decide to push the point, to find the victim. Citizens do decide the laws, and though the process can be long and tedious, it is what we call a society. The idea is, that we have sets of rules that define acceptable behavior, based on what the majority feel. As the majority changes it's mind on a subject, it exerts pressure on politicians, who, in an effort to placate the masses, and retain their salaries, change the laws. We, as members of a polite society, recognize that our own feelings may not represent the majority, and make a choice to isolate ourselves, and potentially be incarcerated, or obey the rule of law. I respect our societies polite boundaries, despite many areas for improvement, and lobby to change attitudes, and thus laws, rather than be so narcissistic as to imagine myself a republic, answerable only to myself.
Ah well, opinion vary. Good luck with the whole life thing. Hey, didn't you have a difference in opinion with a business on here, as a former employee, as to what laws mean? Maybe that was some other guy, and a whole other ugly story...
You are right. It is about you and I. It's absolutely wrong to hold us responsible for the actions of lunatics and deny us opportunities and rights because other people MAY do bad things. Unfortunately we don't get to make the rules. We are bound by the laws set out by the masses.
We have a lot to be proud of in this country but there is a lot of room for improvement.
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I said it is not JUST about you and me (assuming we are both responsible people) refering to the fact that in high probability some people are more careless & reckless than others (like you and I
. I'm not trying to impact anyones rights, thats just a silly statement ... I'm just stating my opinion on a forum, just like you. I already have rights (just like you) and want many more rights (just like you), the only difference is we don't quite agree on how those rights are defined. If I ever encounter a situation (or know someone who has) in my 43 years where I needed a firearm to protect me out in the concrete jungle, I might just change my mind. We're both gun nutz dude ... not against you!6Gun
I said it is not JUST about you and me (assuming we are both responsible people) refering to the fact that in high probability some people are more careless & reckless than others (like you and I
6Gun
While I understand where you are coming from I have to disagree.
I won't use my seat-belt unless I see someone get into a crash type thinking, but lets take it a little further. Saying that no one should have seat belts unless there is a crash or something like that. This metaphor is not really the greatest but I hope you see where I am coming from. It might make more sense in the 30's when they didn't even make cars with seat-belts. Same kind of reasoning. People pushed against this as being unnecessary, Canada is pretty safe anyway right, so who cares?
I would like to support your right to choose how you wish to live your life and you should be supporting everyone right to live their lives as they should without their basic human rights being trampled.
Yep, I do understand where you and everyone else who supports CCW is coming from, although yeah, maybe not the best metaphor... lol, but I get it. I know that we have to fight for our rights and if we don't pay attention, we stand to have them snatched right from under our noses. We need to fight against unjust, stupid and outdated laws. I also understand we all have the right to defend ourselves ... I love stories where a civilian takes out a bad guy committing a crime. I'm just adding a little 'gray' (and my own personal experience) to the discussion, which I don't believe is black and white (few things are). I would be very happy and would fully support wilderness carry as I do quite abit backpacking in remote bear country. I have had several experiences where I feel I needed my .454 for saftey ... just never felt like that at home. Everyone must have at least one or more stories of idiots at the range who shouldn't be allowed to handle a firearm there, let alone in public. I think everyone would agree that wilderness carry would be a first giant step forward ... maybe if it happens in steps! Anyway, thats just where I'm coming from.
6Gun
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blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Before this thread goes full retard (and you never go full retard), you can probably count the number of citizens who have a legal carry permit in this country on one hand. As for legal firearms owners who choose to carry concealed, it doesn't really bother me because just like criminals, I'd have no way of knowing anyway. Seems pointless to get worked up about this.
My vision of CCW in Canada, I don't think that automatically if you own a restricated PAL you should be able to carry, we've all seen stupid people doing stupid things at ranges and outside ranges: ''accidental'' discharge, people that are ALL OVER THE PLACE with a 9mm 10meters away (or not even on target as a matter of fact)
Law Enforcement Officer should have the right/obligation to CCW while off duty because they represent the law 24/7 and should be able to enforce it 24/7 regardless of if they're wearing or not their uniform, with the same tools provided to them while on duty (side arm), should they come across criminal activities that the officer judge to be able to manage by himself or by quickly calling back up after his intervention. For proved LEO only, means you have to pass your ''probation time''
As for civilian CCW, without the need of justifying such a request, their would have to have some ''check list'' to satisfy before applying and being granted the right to carry a weapon in public suh as :
-Mental healt evaluation, a real one, not just a form to fill up. You go to an approved ''canadian firearm safety psychologist'' have a chat with him, he goes thru your medical file searching for depressions, medications and that stuff then gives you a green or red light.
-Black Badge certification with some added stuff such as simulation and theory where you have to choose wether or not to draw your weapon, because not 100% of the time is it OK to draw your weapon and play hero. This video illustrate my point of view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s
-Criminal records linked to violence/drugs/alcohol should mean NO to CCW. Pretty simple eh ? DUI, if you're not smart enough not to drive a car drunk, why would you be smarter with a weapon, same applies to drugs. You should'nt be allowed to carry under the influence... C.U.I.
-Lastly, sorry for the youngest shooters here, but their should be an ''legal age'' to carry a weapon in public. And I'm no better than any kids back then, its just a simple fact that we get our full maturity around the age of 25 years old. I tought it was stupid back then, but being past this age and looking back, yeah I was a hot head when I was younger and I although I know some dumb 45 yrs old and some keen 18 yrs old men ad women... A minimum age limit is to consider.
Now... Open carry or concealed carry ?? I'd leave the open carry to Law Enforcers. Concealed carry for civilian for this simple fact, and it comes from the basic Canadian Firearm Safety Course: Why would you advertise that you are carrying a weapon ? It's just asking for trouble. IMHO, CCW as more ''surprise effect'' and more deterrent effect because people thinking about robbing, attacking or whatever won't be able to look around and be like ''OK I'm clear, no one is armed in the area''. CCW, its a guess, anybody could carry a weapon and use it so why would you take the risk of robbing 50$ in the cash register of a 7/11 ?? OK maybe open carry for hunting safety purposes.
This was my 0.02cents about what CCW in Canada should/could be like.
Law Enforcement Officer should have the right/obligation to CCW while off duty because they represent the law 24/7 and should be able to enforce it 24/7 regardless of if they're wearing or not their uniform, with the same tools provided to them while on duty (side arm), should they come across criminal activities that the officer judge to be able to manage by himself or by quickly calling back up after his intervention. For proved LEO only, means you have to pass your ''probation time''
As for civilian CCW, without the need of justifying such a request, their would have to have some ''check list'' to satisfy before applying and being granted the right to carry a weapon in public suh as :
-Mental healt evaluation, a real one, not just a form to fill up. You go to an approved ''canadian firearm safety psychologist'' have a chat with him, he goes thru your medical file searching for depressions, medications and that stuff then gives you a green or red light.
-Black Badge certification with some added stuff such as simulation and theory where you have to choose wether or not to draw your weapon, because not 100% of the time is it OK to draw your weapon and play hero. This video illustrate my point of view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s
-Criminal records linked to violence/drugs/alcohol should mean NO to CCW. Pretty simple eh ? DUI, if you're not smart enough not to drive a car drunk, why would you be smarter with a weapon, same applies to drugs. You should'nt be allowed to carry under the influence... C.U.I.
-Lastly, sorry for the youngest shooters here, but their should be an ''legal age'' to carry a weapon in public. And I'm no better than any kids back then, its just a simple fact that we get our full maturity around the age of 25 years old. I tought it was stupid back then, but being past this age and looking back, yeah I was a hot head when I was younger and I although I know some dumb 45 yrs old and some keen 18 yrs old men ad women... A minimum age limit is to consider.
Now... Open carry or concealed carry ?? I'd leave the open carry to Law Enforcers. Concealed carry for civilian for this simple fact, and it comes from the basic Canadian Firearm Safety Course: Why would you advertise that you are carrying a weapon ? It's just asking for trouble. IMHO, CCW as more ''surprise effect'' and more deterrent effect because people thinking about robbing, attacking or whatever won't be able to look around and be like ''OK I'm clear, no one is armed in the area''. CCW, its a guess, anybody could carry a weapon and use it so why would you take the risk of robbing 50$ in the cash register of a 7/11 ?? OK maybe open carry for hunting safety purposes.
This was my 0.02cents about what CCW in Canada should/could be like.
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
What's the point of ccw if you can't use the firearm on another person for self defense without being charged
Agreed. Chicago in the US has some of the toughest gun laws and they are killing each other every day down their with illegal guns, criminals dont care about laws.
I said it is not JUST about you and me (assuming we are both responsible people) refering to the fact that in high probability some people are more careless & reckless than others (like you and I
6Gun
Some people should never get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle either, but they have the freedom to try.
Schmitty19
Member
- Location
- Windsor Area
I think shooting outside of a range would be the first step in that direction.
I fully support the right of people who don't want to carry guns to live their lives on their own terms, it would be nice of them to have the same respect for me, as I have for them. A young man here in BC once bought a revolver from a gun store, he had the equivalent of a long term ATT. He was on his way to a course in Surrey one night when he was approached by three violent offenders, one of whom drew a knife and told him to give up his money and wallet. He was carrying the pistol he had bought, and drew it - the violent offenders were not deterred, one of them approached him in a menacing manner, knife held in front of him. The young man fired 3 shots, all of which struck the violent offender - he died instantly, the remainder of the group ran away. In the late '80's the court system was not as biased against gun owners, the young man was charged only with carrying a firearm outside the terms of his permit. Privately police officers told me that had the young man not been armed, he would have been murdered, based upon the violent history of the offenders involved. In Alberta, would James Roszko have been able to get as out of control as he was, if people had had the means of preventing him from running roughshod over their community? Yes, this is Canada, but no one can predict the future, and no one knows in the morning who they'll meet in the course of the day. Tim McLean did not know when he boarded that Greyhound what would happen to him, had he been armed, would Vince Li have been able to perform his unspeakable atrocity? Go ahead, feel comfortable, trust your neighbor, based on your own experience, but don't deny me the right to prepare for the worst, based on my own judgment.
