Concealed weapon or not: The bush and animal protection

[Teapot]

The Belgian company VBR makes cartridges with AP bullets. The bullets have a hard steel core glued in the centre of the softer copper jacketed lead bullet. When soft material is hit the entire bullet stays intact. When a hard object is hit the soft outer bullet is left behind and the hard core travels on. A rip off of the Russian design. Low velocity cartridges like the .45ACP have bullets that are capable of the same penetration.
Point is, harder cored bullets would be of benefit to these older pistols if the intent is animal defence.
The legality of this is unknown to me as is the availability of these bullets for reloading. Solid brass would be another idea to use in these older pistols if they don't raise the pressure. I am not a reloader so I wouldn't know.
Just trying to throw ideas out there.

 

[Matchlock]

Hi everyone;

I've read perhaps a hundred or more posts in this thread about carrying an antique center fire revolver in the Canadian woods. I have but one question if I may and would very much appreciate a simple, properly noted, sourced answer.

My question is, in which document can I find where it specifically states that a person can carry an antique center fire revolver in the bush in Canada.

Thank you.

 

[antiqueguy]

Hi everyone;

I've read perhaps a hundred or more posts in this thread about carrying an antique center fire revolver in the Canadian woods. I have but one question if I may and would very much appreciate a simple, properly noted, sourced answer.

My question is, in which document can I find where it specifically states that a person can carry an antique center fire revolver in the bush in Canada.

Thank you.

there is no document just the fact you can carry and or shoot one where ever you can shoot non restricted firearms

 

[shawn]

Just as antiqueguy said there is no such thing.

The way the law works is it is a giant list of things you can not do. If its not on the list you can do it. And carrying an antique in the woods is not on the list.

Shawn

 

[dingus]

well theres abit more to it than that LOL and there is more than nothing writen to.
You need to read the
"storage display transportation and handling of firearms by individuals regs".

tho its not writen the way you want to see it in one simple line the info is there.
you have to read and understand all the sections i think theres 16
im going from memory here but its in that set of regs if you go thru them enough, like anything wrtten by goverments its not simple or easy to follow.
to start
go to section 2 under application go to the (3) says sections 5 to 14 do not apply to firearms when they are used or handled by individuals in the course of any of the following activities when they are lawfull.
(a) hunting and target shooting (Now being as you can lawfully use a antique to target shoot in all provinces and in ON the MNR says certin types of hunting and dispatch of traped animals on a trapline is also lawfull with antiques )
Now the big thing to understand is you have to read everything it says from section 1 to 16
Then section 5 says this "sections 5 to 13 do not apply to antique firearms." that wipes out most of the regs to do with antique firearms. includeing all the regs to do with restricteds.

The B.C CFO office had a meeting of all the CFOs going over everything in them regs for a few hours years ago and came back and said yes going by the storage transport and use regs its not ilegal to carry and discharge a antique handgun anywhere a none restricted firearm can be used.
Being as in most provinces you can not hunt with a handgun of any type then your reason to have the gun in the woods would be target shooting as thats a legal activitie.
Alot of people target shoot on crown land with non restricteds .

Its Complicated and not in one simple line the way you want it but its there.
Not just me saying this it was pointed out along time ago and the head CFOs backed up what i was told.
lots of other CGN users have found out the same thing.
Tho its smart to be carefull and responsible with antique firearms use of any kind or theses small areas of freedom will get shut tight.

 

[Dake21]

So the way I read it: you can't carry carry anything in the bush but an antique firearms. Sometimes. It depends how the cops feels.

 

[budman]

You first have to have them believe it is an antique in the first place,not a restricted.

 

[shawn]

It really is that simple

go to section 2 under application go to the (3) says sections 5 to 14 do not apply to firearms when they are used or handled by individuals in the course of any of the following activities when they are lawfull.
(a) hunting and target shooting (Now being as you can lawfully use a antique to target shoot in all provinces and in ON the MNR says certin types of hunting and dispatch of traped animals on a trapline is also lawfull with antiques )

Doesn't apply antiques are not firearms under the firearms act

Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms

(3) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:
(a) any antique firearm;

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-39.html#h-38

There is only one section of the act that applies to antique firearms and it is section 14

14. (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.

(2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if

(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.

(3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/page-5.html#h-12

Shawn

 

[JoeOnePack]

Ok, one thing I have not seen clarified is carrying loaded unless I missed it. Also, what if you were to say, put the Antique in your backpack for a certain period. It would have to be in a locked container within your backpack?

 

[shawn]

Ok, one thing I have not seen clarified is carrying loaded unless I missed it. Also, what if you were to say, put the Antique in your backpack for a certain period. It would have to be in a locked container within your backpack?

Ok, one thing I have not seen clarified is carrying loaded unless I missed it.

Technically anywhere, but I would use your head when doing so. Its probably not a good idea to have your iron loaded while walking down Young street.

Also, what if you were to say, put the Antique in your backpack for a certain period. It would have to be in a locked container within your backpack?

Section 14 above. Yes if your are not using it, its in storage or transport.

Shawn

 

[Zircarg]

I had requested permission from the CFC to shoot an antique pistol in NS wilderness for the purpose of target shooting. They said to be sure to have the RCMP letter to prove to local authorities that its an antique and then referred me to the NS Dept. of Natural Resources since I would ultimately need permission from them. The reply from their Director was as follows:

"There is no exemption or special provisions to allow a person to possess or discharge a antique firearm in a wildlife habitat. As such, target shooting must be done at an approved range. You can hunt with antique firearms, however, you require the same licences and certification as a person in possession of a traditional firearm."

 

[budman]

Is that a hunting license they refer to?

 

[Win 38-55]

It appears that the NS Dept of Natural Resources is saying you can hunt with an antique firearm as long as you have a hunting license to do so. As for target shooting in the bush, I am unclear. Are they saying that no firearm whatsoever can be used for target shooting in the bush? They would have no grounds for distinguishing between an antique firearm and a normal non-restricted firearm. The person responding might have been confused about antique pistols being classified as 'not a firearm' requiring no certification, or they are indicating that no firearm whatsoever can ever be used for target shooting in the bush, which seems a bit unusual.

 

[cyclone]

I had requested permission from the CFC to shoot an antique pistol in NS wilderness for the purpose of target shooting. They said to be sure to have the RCMP letter to prove to local authorities that its an antique and then referred me to the NS Dept. of Natural Resources since I would ultimately need permission from them. The reply from their Director was as follows:

"There is no exemption or special provisions to allow a person to possess or discharge a antique firearm in a wildlife habitat. As such, target shooting must be done at an approved range. You can hunt with antique firearms, however, you require the same licences and certification as a person in possession of a traditional firearm."

No differentiation between antique handguns and antique long-guns ?....

 

[Zircarg]

I didn't include my original email to DNR above, but my request was for permission to shoot an antique pistol in NS wilderness areas throughout the province for the purpose of target shooting. I specifically referenced the FA and stated my understanding is that antiques are not 'firearms' under the Act, so he was most certainly aware of this. I asked for clarification on a number of things and was told that hunting with a handgun of any kind including an antique pistol is not permitted, but that an antique long gun is okay, so long as the appropriate hunting license is acquired.

He made no reference to target shooting with an unrestricted long gun, which I assume is permitted during seasons in which a long gun is legal to be taken into a wildlife area (hunting season).

The Director's message was essentially that handguns of any kind (whether restricted/prohibited or antique class) can't be discharged in woodlands (wildlife habitat) for any reason - only at a valid shooting range.

 

[Brutus]

It appears that the NS Dept of Natural Resources is saying you can hunt with an antique firearm as long as you have a hunting license to do so. As for target shooting in the bush, I am unclear. Are they saying that no firearm whatsoever can be used for target shooting in the bush? They would have no grounds for distinguishing between an antique firearm and a normal non-restricted firearm. The person responding might have been confused about antique pistols being classified as 'not a firearm' requiring no certification, or they are indicating that no firearm whatsoever can ever be used for target shooting in the bush, which seems a bit unusual.

Yes, we are talking about a province that frowns upon off season target practice wth .22 rifles on unoccupied crownland, and does not allow trappers or prospectors to carry restricted. And the ever wise DNR used to give out 12 gauge shotshells filled with sand to discourage feral dogs attacks for back country canoeists!! That's true fellas!
The taxpaying mere hobbits are under the heavy hand of big brotherism.

 

[haha49]

Yes, we are talking about a province that frowns upon off season target practice wth .22 rifles on unoccupied crownland, and does not allow trappers or prospectors to carry restricted. And the ever wise DNR used to give out 12 gauge shotshells filled with sand to discourage feral dogs attacks for back country canoeists!! That's true fellas!
The taxpaying mere hobbits are under the heavy hand of big brotherism.

What's the punishment for breaking that law???

You could argue I carry a firearm for protection from wildlife like the coyote that attacked that woman. Then if they say that doesn't matter use the charter of rights and make a challenge to right to life saying you have a right not to be killed by wildlife just because it decided to attack. If they say they can protect you or stay out of the woods say I can't use my freedom to travel if I can't walk in the woods. See if it holds up in court and if you lose well then just take the punishment and see what happens.

 

[Kewl]

No differentiation between antique handguns and antique long-guns ?....

Nova Scotia is one of the few places that doesn't outlaw handgun hunting on a provincial level. Here in B.C. It is illegal to hunt with a barrel shorter than 12".... Might be 12.5".

 

[Kewl]

What's the punishment for breaking that law???

Jail, having your truck confiscated to name a couple.

 

[Vin4570]

Interesting thread. A few years abo in B.C. I had a permit to carry as a prospector. I was recently going to renew my permit as I was doing some guiding in the Rockies. I learned that the paperwork is now so obtuse that it is difficult to understand what they want (WCB information, letter from employer, type of holster, type of ammo, course of fire score). Only a few short years ago, before we got our new CFO from the east, it was pretty straight forward. When it was actually possible to work your way through the paper work to apply, I got a phone call from the CFO who asked a few questions we ended up swapping bear stories. He requested that I carry "discretely" so as to not offend the sensitivities of any Suzukites or tree huggers. In other words, he asked that I carry concealed. I didn't think much about it at the time. I wouldn't want to try and prove this as a president in court though. As you are well aware, the guideles and interpretation of the regulations can often change at the whim of a CFO and even a low level enforcement officer can waste a lot of time or temporary confiscation.

I suppose that open carry for "recreation" is wise. After all, antiques are for "recreation and asthetics". Instead of working throught the paperwork to renew my carry permit, I'm looking at a .44 Russian or .44 Spl. Not as effective as a magnum, but at least you can carry it without paying a lawyer to help you with the paperwork.