They turn a blind eye to things like this to push their emotional agenda. They are very out of touch with reality in Canada and do not see the big picture like the rest of us do. To them, the cops keep everyone safe. Bad things dont happen, victims do not exist because the police keep us safe. Anyone who owns a gun is, to them, a criminal or a suspected criminal with malicious intent. We get lumped in with the same people that dump bodys in dumpsters and throw gerry cans of gas strapped with explosives on other clubs' doorsteps. You know the reality as well as I do, we are not those people and keep guns for anything but crime. They dont see that. They see only what their emotions let them see, anything that contradicts their point of view is disregarded as lies. Nothing will convice them that they are out hurting peole, damaging Canadian society. They view themselves as saviours of the less fortunate. Instead they are disarming the less fortunate and leaving them to whatever demise a criminal sees fit. Then when a victim shows up in the news they stuff their poor story into their oven to further fuel their hateful agenda. The victims thus feed their own misfortune because they cant defend themselves, helpless against criminals and the inhumane anti-gun activists. For those carrying in the bush: my best advice is to stay as well within the law as possible. Try to see things in the eyes of an LEO whos job is to be suspicious of everyone. How would he/she view a pistol tucked under your clothing, according to the law? Technical loopholes are dangerous grey area IMO. Could turn out fine or you could be arrested if the LEO decides you are breaking the law. Even a trip to the station would be enough of a piss off for me to stay away from grey area. Be safe out there but dont get yourself in trouble over it!
Concealed weapon or not: The bush and animal protection
- Thread starter Win 38-55
- Start date
They turn a blind eye to things like this to push their emotional agenda. They are very out of touch with reality in Canada and do not see the big picture like the rest of us do. To them, the cops keep everyone safe. Bad things dont happen, victims do not exist because the police keep us safe. Anyone who owns a gun is, to them, a criminal or a suspected criminal with malicious intent. We get lumped in with the same people that dump bodys in dumpsters and throw gerry cans of gas strapped with explosives on other clubs' doorsteps. You know the reality as well as I do, we are not those people and keep guns for anything but crime. They dont see that. They see only what their emotions let them see, anything that contradicts their point of view is disregarded as lies. Nothing will convice them that they are out hurting peole, damaging Canadian society. They view themselves as saviours of the less fortunate. Instead they are disarming the less fortunate and leaving them to whatever demise a criminal sees fit. Then when a victim shows up in the news they stuff their poor story into their oven to further fuel their hateful agenda. The victims thus feed their own misfortune because they cant defend themselves, helpless against criminals and the inhumane anti-gun activists. For those carrying in the bush: my best advice is to stay as well within the law as possible. Try to see things in the eyes of an LEO whos job is to be suspicious of everyone. How would he/she view a pistol tucked under your clothing, according to the law? Technical loopholes are dangerous grey area IMO. Could turn out fine or you could be arrested if the LEO decides you are breaking the law. Even a trip to the station would be enough of a piss off for me to stay away from grey area. Be safe out there but dont get yourself in trouble over it!
It is still a firearm restricted when used outside of target shooting.
These are the charges you will be charged with along with the
hunting violations.
It will remain an antique non restricted for target use only.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Your post leads to more questions than it answers to a novice shooter.
Maybe you should strive to be more accurate in your legal terminology.
According to Section 84 and 117 of the Criminal Code, definition of 'antique firearm' the use of non-restricted and certainly restricted, is never even once used in the same sentence.
Was out S.W. of Lodgepole, hunting in the rain today and while trudging down a cutline in the snow and mud, getting soaked. As I was returning to the truck, I came across some cat tracks next to mine. Felt good having a .44 Special, even a 133 year old one as a back up, just in case the kittie wanted to "neck" with me.
I'm still waiting for the first 'been there - done that' test case, but no one is in a hurry to put it to the test. That would set the tone for other such incidents, but not necessarily establish a binding precedent.
In a country where you can expect for a child with a BB gun or plastic non-gun to be taken down at gun point and where adults slink in and out of their homes with their guns, fearful of offending neighbours, it would be prudent not to tempt fate.
In a country where you can expect for a child with a BB gun or plastic non-gun to be taken down at gun point and where adults slink in and out of their homes with their guns, fearful of offending neighbours, it would be prudent not to tempt fate.
Over the past few years, I've discussed antique pistols/transport/shooting/antique regs with several different OPP and Waterloo Regional Police, most of whom are friends of mine or an acquaintance. None of them knew much, if anything, about them prior to our conversation, but upon finding out what the regs were, none of them had any problem with any of this, though the general consensus is to keep a photocopy of the pertinent regs with you and some sort of paper showing it is a real antique, because taking your word for it is not always a given.
Having said this, I firmly believe that if we are enjoying them out in the bush, or wherever, with the kind of discretion I and others have been strongly encouraging, we never will have a 'been there - done that' situation to talk about. My preference is to educate as many LEO's in advance, rather than have to do it somewhere 400 km north of here in the remote wilderness.
WIN 38-55
While I admire your campaign to educate your LEO friends and acquaintances one at a time, you are not likely to reach all of them, especially "400 kms north of here in the remote wilderness" where you'll be packing the gun. These are the LEOs you'll be dealing with when it counts, and you can bet that 'antique' revolver status isn't a major topic of conversation amongst them at coffee.
The likelihood is that anyone apprehended while shooting/packing an 'antique' revolver will have his day in court to prove he is within the law by so doing, notwithstanding any paperwork. It is going to be diffilcult to produce this documentation while you are being held at gun point, face down in the dirt.
Considering that we don't have the clearly established right to self defence with a gun of any kind without running afoul of the arbitrary and ill-defined 'safe storage'/trigger lock laws, it is really pushing the envelope to expect that a LEO today will be inclined to use discretionary powers to give one the doubt.
While I admire your campaign to educate your LEO friends and acquaintances one at a time, you are not likely to reach all of them, especially "400 kms north of here in the remote wilderness" where you'll be packing the gun. These are the LEOs you'll be dealing with when it counts, and you can bet that 'antique' revolver status isn't a major topic of conversation amongst them at coffee.
The likelihood is that anyone apprehended while shooting/packing an 'antique' revolver will have his day in court to prove he is within the law by so doing, notwithstanding any paperwork. It is going to be diffilcult to produce this documentation while you are being held at gun point, face down in the dirt.
Considering that we don't have the clearly established right to self defence with a gun of any kind without running afoul of the arbitrary and ill-defined 'safe storage'/trigger lock laws, it is really pushing the envelope to expect that a LEO today will be inclined to use discretionary powers to give one the doubt.
If I have a photocopy of the law and the LEO decides to ignore the law and charge me anyway, he will be in serious trouble with his own authorities and I will make sure it happens. LEO's cannot just ignore the law and charge people willy nilly and toss frivolous charges around. I had coffee this week with a senior OPP officer and we discussed his current situation ..... a complaint has been filed against him by an individual who is a little off and makes stuff up and he is not liking the process at all. You DO have recourse if an LEO abuses his authority and decides to ignore the law, a copy of which you have in your possession, and lay a frivolous charge anyway. If you have a photocopy of the law and an RCMP letter verifying the antique status of your firearm, there are no 'discretionary powers' needed.
Having said all that, if you are feeling guilty about something that you are lawfully permitted to do, then do not do it.
Having said all that, if you are feeling guilty about something that you are lawfully permitted to do, then do not do it.
Last edited:
I too, talk to any LEO that asks about my Colt at the range, that includes the whole reg thing. I then offer up a few rounds for their enjoyment. As far as paper, Always carry the sheets in my pocket. No "encounters" yet, though I'm not packin every time I'm out either. But as previously mentioned, it's lawfull and I for one don't feel guilty about exercising my rights.
Suggesting that I would feel guilty about "exercising my rights" by packing around an 'antique' revolver in the bush is disingenuous. We all have Leo friends and a discussion with them in a coffee shop or at the range is not the same scenario as an encounter in the bush with a LEO on patrol.
If he's at the range, shooting with civilians, he is most likely more accepting of private firearms ownership than some. You only have to watch a police spokesman on TV following a drub bust or arms seizure to get the party line about 'people killers', 'spray & pray assault weapons', large cap magazines, etc., to know the police attitude towards armed civilians in general.
The handicapped son of a rancher neighbour was visiting his brother in town where he was presented with a plastic 'Star Wars' pistol that lit up a red nose when the trigger was squeezed. Someone called in "man with a gun" and he was taken down at gun point and hand cuffed. Badly traumatized, he died a year later, the incident thought to have been a factor in his demise. There was an out-of-court settlement.
I've known a CO (now retired) whose attitude towards handguns in the bush was - if it's legally registered and you are't causing mischief with it, it's cool. BUT - he made it clear that while he wouldn't lay charges, that didn't mean his colleagues felt the same way. That was before all the concern about 'antique' handguns being carried.
As I said in my previous posting, I am far more concerned about my ''rights'' when it comes to home defence and our ambiguous safe storage laws. Most Canadians are likely to have need of a gun in urban environments than in the bush. Rural residents have long been able and willing to do what is necessary, but they are subject to the same laws. Recent events have shown that they are just as likely to wind up in court as an urbanite who uses a gun in self defence.
I've got a 100m range on my property with a safe backstop; steel targets and target stands facing away from the nearest neighbouring property hundreds of yards away. Since I can legally discharge an 'antique' revolver anywhere I can safely and legally discharge a non-restricted firearm, I could fire an 'antique' revolver on this range. I choose not to as all it would take is a phone call and I'd be facing an ERT unit and explaining my legal 'rights'.
I've had some experience with this after a neighbour complained about my shooting disturbing her horses. I received a phone call from a CO about my range, distance from the road, etc. He asked me what I was shooting and I told him a .22 rifle. There was a long pause and he said - "I think I know what's happening here." I invited him to come out and check my set up at any time. That was the end of it.
Another neighbour is involved in a long standing feud that has resulted in threats being made, charges laid, peace bonds and firearms confiscations. Both have large ranch properties where 'antique' handguns could be legally discharged, but it wouldn't be a good idea.
So, I eagerly await the first report of someone having a discussion in the field with a LEO (other than a personal friend) concerning the packing (concealed or otherwise) and firing of an 'antique' handgun.
If he's at the range, shooting with civilians, he is most likely more accepting of private firearms ownership than some. You only have to watch a police spokesman on TV following a drub bust or arms seizure to get the party line about 'people killers', 'spray & pray assault weapons', large cap magazines, etc., to know the police attitude towards armed civilians in general.
The handicapped son of a rancher neighbour was visiting his brother in town where he was presented with a plastic 'Star Wars' pistol that lit up a red nose when the trigger was squeezed. Someone called in "man with a gun" and he was taken down at gun point and hand cuffed. Badly traumatized, he died a year later, the incident thought to have been a factor in his demise. There was an out-of-court settlement.
I've known a CO (now retired) whose attitude towards handguns in the bush was - if it's legally registered and you are't causing mischief with it, it's cool. BUT - he made it clear that while he wouldn't lay charges, that didn't mean his colleagues felt the same way. That was before all the concern about 'antique' handguns being carried.
As I said in my previous posting, I am far more concerned about my ''rights'' when it comes to home defence and our ambiguous safe storage laws. Most Canadians are likely to have need of a gun in urban environments than in the bush. Rural residents have long been able and willing to do what is necessary, but they are subject to the same laws. Recent events have shown that they are just as likely to wind up in court as an urbanite who uses a gun in self defence.
I've got a 100m range on my property with a safe backstop; steel targets and target stands facing away from the nearest neighbouring property hundreds of yards away. Since I can legally discharge an 'antique' revolver anywhere I can safely and legally discharge a non-restricted firearm, I could fire an 'antique' revolver on this range. I choose not to as all it would take is a phone call and I'd be facing an ERT unit and explaining my legal 'rights'.
I've had some experience with this after a neighbour complained about my shooting disturbing her horses. I received a phone call from a CO about my range, distance from the road, etc. He asked me what I was shooting and I told him a .22 rifle. There was a long pause and he said - "I think I know what's happening here." I invited him to come out and check my set up at any time. That was the end of it.
Another neighbour is involved in a long standing feud that has resulted in threats being made, charges laid, peace bonds and firearms confiscations. Both have large ranch properties where 'antique' handguns could be legally discharged, but it wouldn't be a good idea.
So, I eagerly await the first report of someone having a discussion in the field with a LEO (other than a personal friend) concerning the packing (concealed or otherwise) and firing of an 'antique' handgun.
One cannot draw a general conclusion from a specific event like that, so it would really tell us nothing. What we can rely on, and what doesn't change from day to day, is the written law. That is what we can know for sure. Know the law and be prepared to show your documentation to any CO or LEO in a respectful way.
Two weekends ago, a duckhunter on my property got taken down by the OPP (guns drawn, handcuffs, the whole nine yards). He had permission to hunt on my land, but the OPP were confused about whether it was really okay to hunt down by the river. While one officer held the duck hunter, the other one came over to the house and talked with me. It turns out the LEO wasn't completely sure of the law in this case. They ended up letting the duckhunter go and got hold of the person who knew. About a half hour later the OPP returned to the house. They had checked with some fellow in the know and found out that there is no problem hunting ducks down by the river, so came back to apologize and make sure I knew there was no problem.
The bottom line is that you can find yourself face down in the grass with cuffs and guns pointed at you for duck hunting, if the LEO's are not sure of the law. The solution is to calmly and respectfully, with face still planted in the sod, tell them your documentation is in your left rear pocket (if the excitement is about the antique pistol on your belt). Let them acquaint themselves with what the law actually states (the sod is usually comfy .... take a nap while they are sorting it out) and then graciously accept their apology when they confirm that everything was, after all, fine. If there is an abuse of authority, or a willful ignoring of the photocopy of the relevant law when offered an opportunity to examine it, and a frivolous charge is laid, that is the time to file the formal complaint and/or file a civil suit.
"... graciously accept their apology ...' my a$$!
You don't regard being cuffed and held at gun point, face down in the dirt an abuse of authority when someone has not broken any laws? Why isn't the duck hunter not charging these Gestapo types with wrongful arrest? When cops do so without just cause, we are describing a police state. He was arrested because he MIGHT be breaking a law? That's Orwellian in it's implication, an abuse of police power and authority.
It could just as easily been you, exercising your rights under the law with an 'antique' revolver. All I can say is - you first, buddy! Lets see how magnanimous you can be under those circumstances.
You don't regard being cuffed and held at gun point, face down in the dirt an abuse of authority when someone has not broken any laws? Why isn't the duck hunter not charging these Gestapo types with wrongful arrest? When cops do so without just cause, we are describing a police state. He was arrested because he MIGHT be breaking a law? That's Orwellian in it's implication, an abuse of police power and authority.
It could just as easily been you, exercising your rights under the law with an 'antique' revolver. All I can say is - you first, buddy! Lets see how magnanimous you can be under those circumstances.
I know I'd be seeing our lawyer and pressing criminal charges as well, if they were necessary. I think this is ridiculous, having a pissing match over something the uberlords at the R.C.s have said we can already do. So I'm doing it.
you first, buddy! Lets see how magnanimous you can be under those circumstances.
At a risk of further enraging someone... Win 38-55 is a helpful and humble fellow judging by his contributions to this forum. A little bit more thought, perhaps; before flying off of the handle & posting such hostile retort is in order. IMO
Or not, whatever you feel is warranted.
Every week or two we run across someone who just has to know and wants to phone / e-mail all applicable LEO or CFO's.
Relax, do some reading and figure things out by asking a question perhaps. Politely.
Then discreetly and safely enjoy your antique.
Please.
At a risk of further enraging someone... Win 38-55 is a helpful and humble fellow judging by his contributions to this forum. A little bit more thought, perhaps; before flying off of the handle & posting such hostile retort is in order. IMO
Or not, whatever you feel is warranted.
Every week or two we run across someone who just has to know and wants to phone / e-mail all applicable LEO or CFO's.
Relax, do some reading and figure things out by asking a question perhaps. Politely.
Then discreetly and safely enjoy your antique.
Please.
Not to throw gas on the fire ....
Is it just me?, or does it appear to others as well, that the strongest worded replies to these 'using your antique' threads come from members who have yet to invest the considerable effort and cash required to actually own, load for, and use one.
My old girls, they get lots of love. They do get carried around when the situation/envoironment is suitable. Rarely fired mind you, when out there in the deep bush ... where "discrete" is always SOP.
For target practice. With full documentation.
I'll take my chances, refuse to unduely fear an LEO's wrath when all that I am doing is legal.
Good thread 38-55.
Is it just me?, or does it appear to others as well, that the strongest worded replies to these 'using your antique' threads come from members who have yet to invest the considerable effort and cash required to actually own, load for, and use one.
My old girls, they get lots of love. They do get carried around when the situation/envoironment is suitable. Rarely fired mind you, when out there in the deep bush ... where "discrete" is always SOP.
For target practice. With full documentation.
I'll take my chances, refuse to unduely fear an LEO's wrath when all that I am doing is legal.
Good thread 38-55.
