I only see one ego
Concealed weapon or not: The bush and animal protection
- Thread starter Win 38-55
- Start date
I only see one ego
What a pant load! When your life is on the line, slip into some sort of transcendental Zen type state!
Its fight or flight with us humans (these maharishi types must be elevated beings
) When its "on", it's better to have a gun...makes the "fightin' part" easier. If the gun doesn't outright kill the bear, I'm willing to bet it'll make the "flight part" easier too!"icy coolness" I call B.S.
burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
I've forced myself not to put my 2 cents , repeatedly in this thread ..............
this one might make it through ....
some people posting here seem to think bears are leaping out of tree's onto unsuspecting humans who may stray too far into the "bush ".
bears give you lots and lots of warning ( if your paying attention ) of their presence .
that gives the human involved lots of time to prepare their weapon of choice in case things turn ugly .
if a person thinks a antique is useless as a defensive weapon in the bush ....... your more than welcome to put on a bear suit and start leaping from tree's onto the scared little humans below and see how far that gets you .
this one might make it through ....
some people posting here seem to think bears are leaping out of tree's onto unsuspecting humans who may stray too far into the "bush ".
bears give you lots and lots of warning ( if your paying attention ) of their presence .
that gives the human involved lots of time to prepare their weapon of choice in case things turn ugly .
if a person thinks a antique is useless as a defensive weapon in the bush ....... your more than welcome to put on a bear suit and start leaping from tree's onto the scared little humans below and see how far that gets you .
It was to be expected that the quote from the book by Tolle would be a little too erudite for some. I could dumb it down, but what's the point?
It isn't me that feels I 'need' to arm myself with an 'antique' revolver for an outing in the bush. I'm out there on a daily basis, and encounters with deer, bear and moose are regular occurrences, especially in the spring and a later during the berry season. It's quite an experience to be picking berries and find the impression of a bear's body where it lay down for a nap after gorging itself.
During the rut, I have breakfast and supper looking out my dining room window at up to five moose at a time, 250 yards across the lake - two cows, two bulls and a two year old calf. Carrying a rifle, I go 'moose hunting', even if I don't have a draw that year, just for the experience and to study moose behaviour. This is more experience with game than most get to enjoy.
I've had to shoo a black bear off my porch, firing first a 45-70 over it's head. I was on the ground, the bear 2' away on the porch, the railings between us. The muzzle was literally between the bear's ears. The shot had no effect. I got a .45 Colt revolver and from the same position, fired five rounds total, two over the bear's head, the last two in the dirt behind the bear as it ambled off.
Bear are not intimidated by noise or muzzle flash, if this little 250 lb sow was any indication. It returned yet again, this time on the neighbour's property and I reluctantly shot it with the 45-70. Again, this one incident is probably more actual bear experience than many of the 'antique' gun toting, armchair wanna-bees have in a lifetime.
At no time have I said that I regard an 'antique' revolver as useless in the bush; just not my preferred weapon of choice. Anyone who wants to stake his life on one - have at 'er! Earlier I described a 'charging bear' scenario with a target 'bear' advancing on the shooter at speed. I REALLY would like to see some of the 'antique' toters put their 5-6 rounds into the target when very experienced shooters fail with pump action shotguns.
Better yet, take on a REAL bear under the same circumstances and live to tell about it. Driving a wounded bear off into the bush is not a good idea, especially for the next poor SOB that happens to encounter it.
So, by all means, flail away, popping at an aggressive bear with the 'antique' revolver of your choice. It is a 'free' country; well, sort of anyway.
It isn't me that feels I 'need' to arm myself with an 'antique' revolver for an outing in the bush. I'm out there on a daily basis, and encounters with deer, bear and moose are regular occurrences, especially in the spring and a later during the berry season. It's quite an experience to be picking berries and find the impression of a bear's body where it lay down for a nap after gorging itself.
During the rut, I have breakfast and supper looking out my dining room window at up to five moose at a time, 250 yards across the lake - two cows, two bulls and a two year old calf. Carrying a rifle, I go 'moose hunting', even if I don't have a draw that year, just for the experience and to study moose behaviour. This is more experience with game than most get to enjoy.
I've had to shoo a black bear off my porch, firing first a 45-70 over it's head. I was on the ground, the bear 2' away on the porch, the railings between us. The muzzle was literally between the bear's ears. The shot had no effect. I got a .45 Colt revolver and from the same position, fired five rounds total, two over the bear's head, the last two in the dirt behind the bear as it ambled off.
Bear are not intimidated by noise or muzzle flash, if this little 250 lb sow was any indication. It returned yet again, this time on the neighbour's property and I reluctantly shot it with the 45-70. Again, this one incident is probably more actual bear experience than many of the 'antique' gun toting, armchair wanna-bees have in a lifetime.
At no time have I said that I regard an 'antique' revolver as useless in the bush; just not my preferred weapon of choice. Anyone who wants to stake his life on one - have at 'er! Earlier I described a 'charging bear' scenario with a target 'bear' advancing on the shooter at speed. I REALLY would like to see some of the 'antique' toters put their 5-6 rounds into the target when very experienced shooters fail with pump action shotguns.
Better yet, take on a REAL bear under the same circumstances and live to tell about it. Driving a wounded bear off into the bush is not a good idea, especially for the next poor SOB that happens to encounter it.
So, by all means, flail away, popping at an aggressive bear with the 'antique' revolver of your choice. It is a 'free' country; well, sort of anyway.
redbeard870
Regular
You're absolutely right. I've been working around black bears for many years and have most often managed to avoid any confrontation at all. There have been confrontations, but no damage. Wolves are just as annoying when you're trying to work in the middle of the boreal forest. And probably cougars more so where you are in the middle of b.c. Not so much in Nor Ont but sometimes.
Nope; that's never been my experience. Every time I've had an "encounter", the bear was well aware of me prior to me being aware of the bear. 99% of the time all I ever got to see was the bears a$$ end as it ran...then there was that other time (the 1%?) and yes, he too was well aware of me before I was of it. These are Ontario Black Bear in the interior of Algonquin Park I'm referring to, and may well behave differently than "deep bush" bear, and maybe even B.C. Blacks, but in my experience you can't see, hear or detect them whatsoever unless they're on the run...away from you isn't an issue...toward you, problems. They move effortlessly and quietly through very dense bush (the type that makes a grown man cry).
Here we can agree...no need to dumb it down, the quote was dumb enough to begin with.
A couple questions,
How was discharging a .45 colt revolver legal?
Why, if 45-70 didn't work, was a .45 colt revolver a better choice?
Oh and btw, bears most certainly are intimidated by noise. In fact most of the bear encounters I've had have been solved by clapping my hands.... Ever heard of a bear banger?
*edit* "fired five rounds total, two over the bear's head, the last two in the dirt behind the bear as it ambled off." This doesn't make sense... Five rounds total, eh?
Personally I feel it's better than nothing. Is proper preparation absolutely necessary? Of course - it's like every other aspect of life, except in this case there's a minute chance of being eaten alive, so hey, stakes are a little higher.
That said, this summer I had the interesting experience of A) facing down a startled bear with a stick - was working in an area known to have bears and was making a LOT of noise and still startled it and B) having to deal with an aggressive bear actively hunting two people that refused to back down from a group of 12 people with 5 chainsaws that forced us to leave the area. In that situation I would've taken a pistol over a chainsaw in an instant. I would've taken a shotgun or other effective long rifle in an instant over a pistol too.... but if I had my druthers, a 44 mag would be idea for size/weight/convenience while working and length/weight restrictions while in transport.... except that's not going to happen, so we're back to the antiques... which I definitely wished I had.
Just my 2C.
That said, this summer I had the interesting experience of A) facing down a startled bear with a stick - was working in an area known to have bears and was making a LOT of noise and still startled it and B) having to deal with an aggressive bear actively hunting two people that refused to back down from a group of 12 people with 5 chainsaws that forced us to leave the area. In that situation I would've taken a pistol over a chainsaw in an instant. I would've taken a shotgun or other effective long rifle in an instant over a pistol too.... but if I had my druthers, a 44 mag would be idea for size/weight/convenience while working and length/weight restrictions while in transport.... except that's not going to happen, so we're back to the antiques... which I definitely wished I had.
Just my 2C.
The point is a "wimpy" caliber can take down a "dangerous game" animal at close range.
If the video is not enough for that, I don't know what is.
Not all bear attack victims are paralyzed by the situation. Some may manage to pull the gun out and shoot.
There was a case recently in northern BC where a hunter carrying a 45 was attacked and badly mauled. Yet he managed to discharge his handgun and the bear was found dead closeby. The RCMP didn't press any charges at the time.
I think the article was posted on CGN .
predatory bears do leap out of the bush on unsuspecting humans.
If you read the [U of Calgary] article I quoted previously, most fatal black bear attacks were predatory. As in the bear stealthily stalking unsuspecting humans.
The bears we all have haphazardly encountered rarely attack. But then we don't need protection for beasts that don't attack us. Rather the opposite.
Wow...just wow.
As I have pointed out before to you, unless your porch is an approved for restricted range, loading and dischargeing a resticted pistol is criminal activity which makes responsible gun owners look bad. Having your supposed qualifications as an instructor makes your act unexcusable.
Killing a bear because it happens to be on your neighbours property, unless it was in an actual attack on your neighbours person is again criminal activity which makes responsible gun owners look bad.
Please, in the future do not condensend to us unexperienced masses. At least our use of firearms and interaction with animals in the wild is not criminal. And if I was Win 38-55 I would feel very uncomfortable being lumped in with the same group as you.
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If he can discharge a firearm on his property, it isn't strictly illegal to shoot a handgun from inside his House, or covered porch.
The only thing keeping him from doing so outside of that is a lack of an ATT.
Not to mention in rural areas is isn't illegal to keep a gun by the door with ammunition ready for predator control, which is what he did.
A problem bear that won't take the hint, and find better places to forage is a danger to everyone in the area.
I would argue with all due respect, that until you spent a month living where he does, your opinion is uninformed, and based purely on emotion.
The only thing keeping him from doing so outside of that is a lack of an ATT.
Not to mention in rural areas is isn't illegal to keep a gun by the door with ammunition ready for predator control, which is what he did.
A problem bear that won't take the hint, and find better places to forage is a danger to everyone in the area.
I would argue with all due respect, that until you spent a month living where he does, your opinion is uninformed, and based purely on emotion.
I live rurally on a woodlot surrounded by Crown land. The site of my 100 yard range has been approved by the local CO as there is a "No single projectile for 400M" law on the main road and I wanted to comply.
The bear in question was deemed a "nuisance bear" as she was obviously habituated and regarded human presence as a food source - bird feeders, chicken coops, dog food, compost piles, etc., all of which are in abundance on the ranches and farms around me. My closest neighbour arrived at my door demanding that I shoot the bear as it was prowling around her house where she lives with her elderly mother and two horses, all terrified by the bear. The bear was ignoring her large breed dog and in danger of being killed as the bear foraged.
I was under the mistaken impression that a 45-70 fired at close range would intimidate the bear. An empty 45-70 is a club. Rather than grab a few more rds of 45-70, it was just as easy for me to access a .45 and load it with five rds. As stated, two rds were fired over the bear's head, the last two right on it's heels simply because I was annoyed that it was not all frightened. The third round was fired in the general direction of the bear into a safe back stop. Five rds accounted for. Alles klar?
Some may deem my act as "criminal", but at least I'm not guilty of criminal stupidity in that I think I'm adequately armed with an 'antique' revolver against an aggressive bear.
My ATT allows me to transport my restricted firearms to an approved range. There is an ongoing discussion as to whether or not one can legally discharge a restricted weapon on private property if done so in a safe manner. I know that many subscribers to this forum say they do so.
The bear made it's way back onto my neighbour's property thereafter, where it had come from to visit me. I don't know which constitutes a more dangerous situation - a habituated bear or one in a charge. Hikers encounter more of the former than the latter.
As for the effectiveness of a pip squeak round on the skull of a stationary lion, under the circumstances, a .22 LR would likely have been just as effective. That doesn't make a .22 LR handgun a viable bear gun.
In BC, it is unlawful to shoot a bison with a 45-70 as it doesn't generate sufficient energy, according to the bureaucrats in Victoria. This despite the tens of thousands of bison that fell to the 45-70 and lesser BPCR's during the extermination of the herds. Why? Because a woman that put rds from her .270 into one was rolled on in the snow before the animal died. Does this mean that a bison cannot be adequately harvested with a .270 if the proper bullets are well placed?
So let's extrapolate this rationale to the Utopian situation where we are now legally allowed to pack a handgun in the bush - ANY handgun. Undoubtedly, there will be a committee struck, comprised of faceless bureaucrats who will consult paper ballistics and arbitrarily decide which calibres generate energy sufficient to cope with the largest species a person is likely to encounter in the bush - Ursus Horribilis, the North American Grizzly.
Calibres likely to make the cut will be the .454 Casull, the .44 Magnum, the latest S&W offerings and a very few others. It is unlikely that any of the 'antique' calibres will make the list.
As I said earlier - feel free to bang away at a bear with an 'antique' revolver. I wish you well. Once the first person fails to survive a bear encounter, the rules will change, just as they did for hunting bison, and 'antique' revolvers will be relegated to the target range.
The bear in question was deemed a "nuisance bear" as she was obviously habituated and regarded human presence as a food source - bird feeders, chicken coops, dog food, compost piles, etc., all of which are in abundance on the ranches and farms around me. My closest neighbour arrived at my door demanding that I shoot the bear as it was prowling around her house where she lives with her elderly mother and two horses, all terrified by the bear. The bear was ignoring her large breed dog and in danger of being killed as the bear foraged.
I was under the mistaken impression that a 45-70 fired at close range would intimidate the bear. An empty 45-70 is a club. Rather than grab a few more rds of 45-70, it was just as easy for me to access a .45 and load it with five rds. As stated, two rds were fired over the bear's head, the last two right on it's heels simply because I was annoyed that it was not all frightened. The third round was fired in the general direction of the bear into a safe back stop. Five rds accounted for. Alles klar?
Some may deem my act as "criminal", but at least I'm not guilty of criminal stupidity in that I think I'm adequately armed with an 'antique' revolver against an aggressive bear.
My ATT allows me to transport my restricted firearms to an approved range. There is an ongoing discussion as to whether or not one can legally discharge a restricted weapon on private property if done so in a safe manner. I know that many subscribers to this forum say they do so.
The bear made it's way back onto my neighbour's property thereafter, where it had come from to visit me. I don't know which constitutes a more dangerous situation - a habituated bear or one in a charge. Hikers encounter more of the former than the latter.
As for the effectiveness of a pip squeak round on the skull of a stationary lion, under the circumstances, a .22 LR would likely have been just as effective. That doesn't make a .22 LR handgun a viable bear gun.
In BC, it is unlawful to shoot a bison with a 45-70 as it doesn't generate sufficient energy, according to the bureaucrats in Victoria. This despite the tens of thousands of bison that fell to the 45-70 and lesser BPCR's during the extermination of the herds. Why? Because a woman that put rds from her .270 into one was rolled on in the snow before the animal died. Does this mean that a bison cannot be adequately harvested with a .270 if the proper bullets are well placed?
So let's extrapolate this rationale to the Utopian situation where we are now legally allowed to pack a handgun in the bush - ANY handgun. Undoubtedly, there will be a committee struck, comprised of faceless bureaucrats who will consult paper ballistics and arbitrarily decide which calibres generate energy sufficient to cope with the largest species a person is likely to encounter in the bush - Ursus Horribilis, the North American Grizzly.
Calibres likely to make the cut will be the .454 Casull, the .44 Magnum, the latest S&W offerings and a very few others. It is unlikely that any of the 'antique' calibres will make the list.
As I said earlier - feel free to bang away at a bear with an 'antique' revolver. I wish you well. Once the first person fails to survive a bear encounter, the rules will change, just as they did for hunting bison, and 'antique' revolvers will be relegated to the target range.
Lol. B.s.
Let's start with your choice of .45 colt. You know .44spl is/can be pretty darn close to .45 colt. Ever looked into .45acp lineage? Yup, it was made to be very close to .45 colt... I won't rub your nose in the .45 schofield... The point here is your choice isn't prefect either but at least the guys packing antiques aren't breaking the law. Why you would pick the handgun over the rifle is beyond me.... And then you come here and belittle other guys decisions.
You've got a private range, approved by your provincial firearms officer? Riiiiiiiight.
If the bear was on your porch and you were on the ground... It sounds like you were shooting in an unsafe direction. Just sayin'
To tell you the truth, I don't think most antique handguns are adequate for bear defence. I also think sharps '63 is full of it.
Let's start with your choice of .45 colt. You know .44spl is/can be pretty darn close to .45 colt. Ever looked into .45acp lineage? Yup, it was made to be very close to .45 colt... I won't rub your nose in the .45 schofield... The point here is your choice isn't prefect either but at least the guys packing antiques aren't breaking the law. Why you would pick the handgun over the rifle is beyond me.... And then you come here and belittle other guys decisions.
You've got a private range, approved by your provincial firearms officer? Riiiiiiiight.
If the bear was on your porch and you were on the ground... It sounds like you were shooting in an unsafe direction. Just sayin'
To tell you the truth, I don't think most antique handguns are adequate for bear defence. I also think sharps '63 is full of it.
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You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is based on fact, not fantasy; experience vs armchair theory. And yours is based on ..... ? When one cannot refute the position of someone in a debate, the default is to attack the person.
If you think there is any practical difference between any of the low end .44's and .45's at that distance, I have to ask - what other delusions do you suffer from? I could have used on of my .44 Magnums, a 44-40 or a .455 for all the difference it would have made. Other than growling at me, the bear was never aggressive at any time and the object was to scare it off.
Why the revolver over the rifle? More rounds. A no-brainer. When it came time to dispatch the bear, I used the 45-70. Nothing walks away from that with a well placed shot.
My range is like a lot of other ranges on rural, private property. While not approved by the CPFO, it doesn't have to be as I only use it to test rifle loads and the public does not have access to it. I could do the same thing on Crown land. Go back and read what I said before beaking off.
As for "just sayin" re: the safety angle of my shots, if it wasn't safe, I wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Great assumption. You know what they say about assumptions, don't you?
I'm happy to read that you agree with me on the topic of bear defence - 'antique' handguns are not ideal for the purpose.
If you think there is any practical difference between any of the low end .44's and .45's at that distance, I have to ask - what other delusions do you suffer from? I could have used on of my .44 Magnums, a 44-40 or a .455 for all the difference it would have made. Other than growling at me, the bear was never aggressive at any time and the object was to scare it off.
Why the revolver over the rifle? More rounds. A no-brainer. When it came time to dispatch the bear, I used the 45-70. Nothing walks away from that with a well placed shot.
My range is like a lot of other ranges on rural, private property. While not approved by the CPFO, it doesn't have to be as I only use it to test rifle loads and the public does not have access to it. I could do the same thing on Crown land. Go back and read what I said before beaking off.
As for "just sayin" re: the safety angle of my shots, if it wasn't safe, I wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Great assumption. You know what they say about assumptions, don't you?
I'm happy to read that you agree with me on the topic of bear defence - 'antique' handguns are not ideal for the purpose.
When did this happen?? I don't remember them saying I could take my restricted in the
bush(any Handgun)?
Wilderness ACT's are not being issued that I am aware of.
So we here are taking our NR long guns and antiques for target shooting and security.
bush(any Handgun)?
Wilderness ACT's are not being issued that I am aware of.
So we here are taking our NR long guns and antiques for target shooting and security.
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You are so full of yourself and sh!t it's absurd.
First antique calibers won't work, then it doesn't make any practical difference.
If you bothered to read my first post in this thread it would give you some in site as to my extensive bear experience... Yours is just dreams and fantasy. Unless that comment about bears not being afraid of noise was just another slip.
Face it, you don't know squat. Your just spouting off and getting called on it.
