Cz858 prices to take a dive once type81's here.

ben777lemay said:
I also doubt a Chinese rifle, even if its well built ( and we still don't know for sure ) will be better than a Czech rifle.
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Absolutely right. For starters, the Type 81 uses an AK style stamped metal receiver vs the solid milled receiver of the 858. I can't wait to get mine but I am no under any illusion that it will be better than the 858 I already have.
 
870P said:
It's around, but there were only about 1 million produced, mass production ended a long time ago and it's never served as a large scale issue arm in any conflict unless you want to count Operation Danube.
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Wars of the vz58...

Vietnam War
Cambodian-Vietnamese War
Nigerian Civil War
Cyprus Conflicts
The Troubles
South African Border War
Eritrean War of Independence
Gulf War
War in Afghanistan (2001–present)
Libyan Civil War

The Gulf and Afghanistan would count as large scale issued arm at the very least.
 
The VZ58 is as popular now as it ever has been and is still growing in popularity in the States (albeit the crappy Century Arms copies have poor reputations for quality). The Czech made VZ58's are high quality, milled receiver firearms that have proven themselves in many a large-scale conflict. Chinese quality at best is iffy.
 
sabatage said:
If this is red rifle mods will move it. The Type 81 will be superior, it better be as it was designed 2 decades after the cz and was designed as a upgrade/replacement for the Ak, which is also a more reliable rifle then the cz/vz. The gas system on the cz is nice but not much shares reliability with a ak and if the t81 is anywhere close to a ak the cz's will have to suffer as I know no one who will buy one.
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Does the words Made In China, REALLY make you think it will be superior? If you do , please tell me what you have in your stash, and where you got it cause I want some!!
 
In terms of reliability, and considering the gremlin, the 81 would be a better SHTF rifle. You know I'm a fan of the 58, but still. The sheet metal form works. The AK was sheet metal, then milled, then stamped.
 
Although this has turned into a vz58/cz858 vs T81 pissing match I highly doubt price of one will drop upon arrival of the other, when have gun prices dropped. They always increase over time typically, sales not included.
 
Deckard said:
In terms of reliability, and considering the gremlin, the 81 would be a better SHTF rifle. You know I'm a fan of the 58, but still. The sheet metal form works. The AK was sheet metal, then milled, then stamped.
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This assumes that the gremlin isn't dealt with before the SHTF. It's not like the problem keeps recurring once it's fixed. It also doesn't affect every rifle.
 
CanadianBaconPancakes said:
Not sure if your joking or being sarcastic or I just misunderstood but If you had the money why would you buy a norinco AR over the Bushmaster?

And for the T81 vs VZ/CZ their differnt platforms, you should buy both imo. But then again I would by a springfield over the norc 305... Guess its preference but I don't see the benefit in buying the cheapest option when their are other considerations to the purchase other then price like Parts, Quality, warranty ext.
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My point wasn't very clear so its understandable that not just you but many who read it, it may not be a clear message.

The op is saying once the Type 81 comes out, no one will want to spend the money on the CZ 858 but my example is that, even though the Norinco AR is so cheap, there is still people more than willing to spend $1500 - $4000 on an AR. The CZ and Type 81 may be a different platform but they're essentially the same gun on our market. A gun that looks like an AK and fires the same round but is not an AK.
 
saskcop said:
The VZ58 is as popular now as it ever has been and is still growing in popularity in the States (albeit the crappy Century Arms copies have poor reputations for quality). The Czech made VZ58's are high quality, milled receiver firearms that have proven themselves in many a large-scale conflict. Chinese quality at best is iffy.
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The Vz58s we get here are a lot closer to the Century Arms than to the old military production models IMO.

The Czech might build good firearms but the Vz58 seems like its rather expensive to build and so the newer production models probably see a lot of corner cutting to remain price competitive.

Unless the Canadian market Type 81s are botched, I don't see how they could be worse off other than maybe in finish quality.
 
I remember when the Cz858 came out people said the same thing about the SKS - how much better the CZ was, and how the SKS wouldn't be worth a plug nickel. Guess what? They are still selling the SKS by the truckload. They will still be selling the 858 long after the T81 hits the market. They'll still be selling the SKS as well.
 
870P said:
The Vz58s we get here are a lot closer to the Century Arms than to the old military production models IMO.

The Czech might build good firearms but the Vz58 seems like its rather expensive to build and so the newer production models probably see a lot of corner cutting to remain price competitive.

Unless the Canadian market Type 81s are botched, I don't see how they could be worse off other than maybe in finish quality.
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I don't think this is necessarily so. I have heard a few things with the VZ58's here in Canada, but nothing like the stories about Century Arms and their canted sights, improperly rifled and bored barrels, etc. Czech quality speaks for itself, and Chinese quality often has something to say about itself too.
 
Agreed
saskcop said:
I don't think this is necessarily so. I have heard a few things with the VZ58's here in Canada, but nothing like the stories about Century Arms and their canted sights, improperly rifled and bored barrels, etc. Czech quality speaks for itself, and Chinese quality often has something to say about itself too.
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sabatage said:
So I wondered what all Cz/Vz owners thought about the arrival of the Type 81. I was pondering with a few of my shooting buddy's about the introduction of the type 81, and we all agreed that soon no one in their right mind will pay over or around 800$ for a cz/vz when for a a bit more you can have a superior rifle. Once the Type81's are out for a bit and selling used it will drive the cz/vz prices even lower as again if you can get a used type81 for around 9-950$ who in their right mind would even pay 750$ for a cz/vz. Now I see why so many people are trying to sell there cz/vz's as soon they won't be worth nearly what they are now..
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not knocking the type81 but saying we all agreed it is a superior rifle than the cz858?
on what criteria? and what tests have you performed to prove those assumptions?
type 81 is basically an sks with a pistol grip and a mag
the fact that many owners of cz858s will never ever sell them, sinc no more are ever coming in again, also greatly impacts things
 
870P said:
I've shot a lot of AKs and would take a good one hands down over a Vz58.

As for the Type 81, who knows if it'll be any good?

However if it is it, it seems to have a major leg up just off the fact that it has normal AK style furniture, and not the dinky little pistol grip and forend and awkward buttstocks of the surplus style Vz58.
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strangely a whole lot of americans who have shots tons of AKs would drop all their AKs in their kitty litter box just to have a canadian cz858 authentic czech made gun, it could be because their gvt prevents them from owning one that makes those rifles so valuable to them
just like the ak is to us canadians
 
mikethebike said:
strangely a whole lot of americans who have shots tons of AKs would drop all their AKs in their kitty litter box just to have a canadian cz858 authentic czech made gun, it could be because their gvt prevents them from owning one that makes those rifles so valuable to them
just like the ak is to us canadians
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Because more rare. Is a Swiss made SAN worth the price of what it commands in the US?
A lot of people here will line up for an AK, in some cases pay through their noses for a Valmet.
 
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