Daniel Defense AR vs Norinco

BCboy said:
Mine accepts all aftermarket parts, many guys have run them hard at courses as well , pull trigger =bang and repeat , I would take reliable any day . Dose your AR do something different than a norinco , what makes your "x brand" AR better besides finish? What dose yours do better?
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Makes your ##### bigger.
 
Nester said:
Look at you playing coy :cool:


Weren't you the technical advisor and you don't know who was in it...c'mon man!
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Not playing coy. I honestly don't have a clue who those two are. As for the technical advisor comment, please, I'm starting to blush. I'll ask you the same thing I've asked several others. Where have I ever posted that I was or am an expert? Where have I ever posted that I know all there is to know about any specific topic?

BCboy said:
Mine accepts all aftermarket parts, many guys have run them hard at courses as well , pull trigger =bang and repeat , I would take reliable any day . Dose your AR do something different than a norinco , what makes your "x brand" AR better besides finish? What dose yours do better?
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For starters my AR's have never had a failure, nor have I ever had a problem mounting any aftermarket parts/accessories. They're made in America which happens to be our(Canada's) largest trading partner, and support is much easier to deal with. Your Norc has run, but a fair number of others have not.

Carefactor_Zer0 said:
I don't get it. People always say they buy a $600 Aimpoint because they won't put their lives in the hands of a $100 knock off (as if we do in Canada.) Then the $600 knock off rifle feeds more reliably than the high end $1500 one, and people make excuses for it. Which is it? Be happy with whichever you have.
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$1500 for an AR is far from expensive, and DD is definitely a top end brand. I get it. If you shoot from the bench a couple times a year and for a couple hundred rounds, striving for tiny groups or enjoy bump firing a 5 round magazine, then the Norc is an economical choice. It may even run "flawlessly" for several years worth of shooting at such a pace. If you want a quality firearm that you never ever have to doubt will run as designed then don't buy a Norc. Its no surprise that those who buy cheap as in cheap quality are always the first ones validating their purchase with price. Those who buy brand name rarely if ever need to or feel compelled to validate their purchase. Buy what you like, just don't pretend you wouldn't take a better brand name product if given the chance.

TDC
 
TDC said:
For starters my AR's have never had a failure, nor have I ever had a problem mounting any aftermarket parts/accessories. They're made in America which happens to be our(Canada's) largest trading partner, and support is much easier to deal with. Your Norc has run, but a fair number have
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People have problems with there American made AR's , support? It's an AR15 what the hell do you need that for? If something breaks u buy the part and fix it just like you would any other. Mine has never failed just like 100's of others and to say that someday mine might malfunction is the same as your might to .as far as adding extra parts that's a non issue , handgurds may need a little help on USA built ones as well .

You have yet to make a valid reson why yours is better
 
BCboy said:
People have problems with there American made AR's , support? It's an AR15 what the hell do you need that for? If something breaks u buy the part and fix it just like you would any other. Mine has never failed just like 100's of others and to say that someday mine might malfunction is the same as your might to .as far as adding extra parts that's a non issue , handgurds may need a little help on USA built ones as well .

You have yet to make a valid reson why yours is better
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Well if what everyone is saying is true, the norcs aren't mil spec? and if they're not mil spec, you'd have to modify the gun to make it fit milspec parts? that costs money, i'm not sure how much, but i'm assuming it's not cheap especially if you're not a do it your selfer. and then the fit might not be very nice, nor will the finish. Why buy something that's cheaper just to have to upgrade it when you can just buy a top tier ar that's good to go out of the box with an awesome fit and finish?

Plus ... it makes your ##### bigger.w:h:
 
BCboy said:
People have problems with there American made AR's , support? It's an AR15 what the hell do you need that for? If something breaks u buy the part and fix it just like you would any other. Mine has never failed just like 100's of others and to say that someday mine might malfunction is the same as your might to .as far as adding extra parts that's a non issue , handgurds may need a little help on USA built ones as well .

You have yet to make a valid reson why yours is better
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So who could or would do warranty work on your Norc if it fails catastrophically? Just curious.

As for parts. If you buy a reputable brand, it won't need custom fitting. How many threads were there about fitting Magpul MOE handguards on Norc rifles? I mean really, they're a drop in handguard, and they needed modifying to fit. Sorry but my American made guns were made to the specs designed for the rifle, I'm not so sure about the Norc. The fact that my money didn't go to support a slimy nation that abuses its people its land and its animals is enough of a win to make even a non functioning US made rifle better than a Norc.

TDC
 
Ganderite said:
Ok, it is me again.

That was a typo. My reloads are running .375 to .378" at the web. All were FL sized in a Lee carbide die, with a light lube of Lee lube. This die has sized about 200,000 rounds, so it may have worn a bit. I am borrowing a die from a friend and will see if it makes the cases any smaller.

The brass is all range pick up brass, so some will be more springy than others - resulting in variations in web diameter.

This range of cases diameters is still within spec and I would expect it to work well. In the past my ammo has chambered without incident in a SGW AR-15 and several different bolt guns. Bullets are 55 gr Lake City, seated deep enough to fit the mags.

I sprayed the DD chamber with brake cleaner and spun a chamber brush in it with an electric drill. It is CLEAN.

I have used a 223bolt rifle chambered with a JGS 223 Wylde reamer. It accept all the ammo, without a problem. I believe the Wylde chamber is based on a SAAMI minimum chamber.

The same ammo will not chamber all the way to the shoulder in the DD. None of it goes all the way, but most will chamber when the bolts hits the case. A few will not chamber at all.

A new IVI round will chamber in the DD without issue, but has very little wiggle. From all this I have concluded that the DD is tight. It will accept factory ammo, but not all reloads, because reloads are not sized back down to original cases sizes. The DD chamber is definitely tighter than my target rifle chamber and much tighter than the Norinco, which probably has some kind of generous NATO chamber.

The tight chamber might make the DD more accurate. I have not yet tested it that way. The owner's choice will be to use only factory ammo or to touch the chamber with a reamer. Or maybe we will discover another die does a better job of sizing the brass. I don't know if only 200,000 will wear out a carbide die.

I did not make the post to compare a Norinco to a DD. I was hoping others would respond by saying that yes, the DD has a tight chamber an needs small base dies or that theirs digests all manner of handloads just fine.

I will see if another sizing die has the same problem with the DD.

Anyone know if a Lee factory Crimp die would size an over-sized case, the way it does on a straight walled pistol case?[/QUOTE]

Yes, this post has gone is some rather interesting directions. wonder what would have been said if the chambers were reversed?

anyways to answer your question, no the Lee fcd for the 223 doesn't touch the case at all. there is a collet at the top of the die with squishes the seated bullet. Will not resolve your situation.

what you need is a small base sizing die. these are designed to go a fair bit under SAAMI spec and that will also squish "fat and hardened" webs.

a new Lee FL sizer might do the same thing. My Lee FL sizer does squish things towards the small side.

From that point, the DD will work just fine. Personally, I would just give that chamber a quick stretch to ensure more ammo functions properly. an AR is a working rifle and super tight chambers seem redundant to me.

as for accuracy, I am sure you have shot enough rifles to know chamber dimensions will not matter when properly fitted cases are shot. The throat length is the only thing that really matters and that is easily checked.

Bore quality is next and that can be wildly varied in milspec rifles.

I look forward to see how this "soap" evolves.

Of the Norcs, I have seen, shot or own, they seem to work. can there be duds, I am sure. but there are no shortage of posts on other mainstream brands having issues.

So I feel the AR design itself can be problematic. No brand is immune from problem.

I look forward to mutating mine into a competitive service rifle rig.

Lots of US aftermarket parts will be used as I have yet to find something that didn't fit/work.

Will be fun

Jerry
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TDC said:
So who could or would do warranty work on your Norc if it fails catastrophically? Just curious.

As for parts. If you buy a reputable brand, it won't need custom fitting. How many threads were there about fitting Magpul MOE handguards on Norc rifles? I mean really, they're a drop in handguard, and they needed modifying to fit. Sorry but my American made guns were made to the specs designed for the rifle, I'm not so sure about the Norc. The fact that my money didn't go to support a slimy nation that abuses its people its land and its animals is enough of a win to make even a non functioning US made rifle better than a Norc.

TDC
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Getting weaker , as stated the handgaurds have been problem on US made guns as well ,yes USA MADE AR's have had issues as well . That's it ! Catostrofic failure ? US guns kaboom too and good luck getting warranty on it If it blows up , can you show us all some evidence of the norc's kabooming more than others?
If handgaurds are the only deciding factor to make your gun better than a norc than spend the extra $500 just so your magpul hand guard will fit , it's well worth it.
Complaining where it was made dosent make yours better, mabey your will fit a slide fire stock better for bear defense but that's probley about it
 
BCboy said:
Getting weaker , as stated the handgaurds have been problem on US made guns as well ,yes USA MADE AR's have had issues as well . That's it ! Catostrofic failure ? US guns kaboom too and good luck getting warranty on it If it blows up , can you show us all some evidence of the norc's kabooming more than others?
If handgaurds are the only deciding factor to make your gun better than a norc than spend the extra $500 just so your magpul hand guard will fit , it's well worth it.
Complaining where it was made dosent make yours better, mabey your will fit a slide fire stock better for bear defense but that's probley about it
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What if you want to put a different caliber upper on it? If it's not milspec, it won't fit, which will lead to mods which leads to imperfection which leads to more money spent.
 
[youtube]?v=8_qrTdTA_Ns[/youtube]

thats basically how it is... norinco is mil spec unless you get an oops

some rifles, for better or worse, are made to tighter tolerances.

699$ to increase my annihilating fire power out to 300 m is a steal... targets at 200 with the irons are no problem with my 14.5

another good vid
[youtube]?v=cahWZkE4dLw&feature=related[/youtube]
 
If all you can afford is a Norinco, buy it an enjoy it. But if you have the ability, treat yourself to something like a DD, or Novesky, or Colt, etc.

I'm sure that once in a while a BMW or a Porsche or even a Ferrari will have an issue. But I don't think anyone in their right mind would take a Hyundai over those, because of that anomaly...that exception to the rule.

I just got a DDM4 V5 and I feel like I stole it for only $1500. The finish, the parts, the accessories, THE ACCURACY...they are phenomenal. Out of the box, I just slapped an Eotech sight on and started pounding 55gr. American Eagle through it. It shoots sub MOA. At 50m, all my rounds were touching. At 100m they were about 3/4 of an inch apart. And I'm at best an average shooter, shooting off a log laid across a shooting table, rested on the fore grip.

I am in love with this rifle. I've had a Norinco AR15 and ...it was ok. But on my best day, I could barely keep all the round inside a silhouette at 100m. So, whatever you think you might gain in terms of feeding reliability with your Norc, you trade off in terms of accuracy.

I guess that question that would naturally follow is what's more important, being able to feed any slop into your rifle or being able to hit what you're aiming at?
 
ya'll need to get along more :p

I'll be getting a norc because it'll be my first AR. Would I like a 'better' AR? Yes, but I'm already having problems justifying 800 (inc tax etc) with the lady. I'm not going to be an 'operator' or anything like that, I'll be shooting cheap ammo at a paper targer 50 yards away -- while having a blast and maybe showing a few friends the AR and getting them into the sport too.
 
BCboy said:
Getting weaker , as stated the handgaurds have been problem on US made guns as well ,yes USA MADE AR's have had issues as well . That's it ! Catostrofic failure ? US guns kaboom too and good luck getting warranty on it If it blows up , can you show us all some evidence of the norc's kabooming more than others?
If handgaurds are the only deciding factor to make your gun better than a norc than spend the extra $500 just so your magpul hand guard will fit , it's well worth it.
Complaining where it was made dosent make yours better, mabey your will fit a slide fire stock better for bear defense but that's probley about it
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As I posted. REPUTABLE makers of AR's produce reliable pieces of equipment. Seeing as how a good handful of them in the US have comfortably manufactured far more copies than Norinco ever has, I'm willing to bet they know what they're doing. No doubt a lemon is produced by nearly everyone from time to time. That being said, the REPUTABLE brands in the US put out far far fewer lemons than Norinco.

You and the other Norinco fanboys can tout how awesome your cheap rifles are all day. Bottom line is that quality US made AR's are better built with better materials. If yours runs, great. I can't be bothered saving a few bucks and taking the risk in owning a non functioning look alike. Many see their firearms as toys, I see them as tools. If I can't trust my life to them and trust that they will work on demand, I won't waste my time with it. If as Zeer posted above, you're short on funds and looking for a giggle toy, then the Norc would fit that bill.

TDC
 
Carefactor_Zer0 said:
I don't get it. People always say they buy a $600 Aimpoint because they won't put their lives in the hands of a $100 knock off (as if we do in Canada.) Then the $600 knock off rifle feeds more reliably than the high end $1500 one, and people make excuses for it. Which is it? Be happy with whichever you have.
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OMG, i don't understand why people are so crazy about this situation!!!!
It was only one DD Ar that were having this "CUSTOM RELOAD" issue!!! It doesn't meet that all the DD AR are s**t !!!!
I know people at the range that had issues with there LMT, KAC & Stag!!! It wasn't the end of the world!!! Those rifles are normally convert by there manufacturer warranty compare to Norco customer service !!!

DD AR were up for sale in the USA for about 3 years and the reviews are awesome (base on internet reviews)!!! I never heard someone complaining about DD AR in the net except here!!! it kind of bizarre.... From what i have heard Daniel defense and Norco are in two different class!!! They shouldn't even be in the same sentense!!!!
 
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