Daniel Defense AR vs Norinco
- Thread starter Ganderite
- Start date
Dang... Thats a small country armed right there
Yup, I have a reg cert with a big pile of tax returns under it also...
I am planning the accuracy test. 3 rifles: Norc M4, DD M4 and my wife's 223 target rifle.
All will have target scopes on them.
3 bullets 55 FMJ, 62 FMJ and a 69 Match; each bullet will have 3 different powder charges. Plus some kind of factory ammo, for 10 groups out of each rifle. This should give us some kind of idea of how they shoot.
All will have target scopes on them.
3 bullets 55 FMJ, 62 FMJ and a 69 Match; each bullet will have 3 different powder charges. Plus some kind of factory ammo, for 10 groups out of each rifle. This should give us some kind of idea of how they shoot.
That is an old picture. The stack is much smaller now. Should have had a cert burning ceremony
So at some point you owned thousands of guns?
That's a 500 page stack, with even only four certs on each, that's 2000 guns...maybe more if they have more than four certs on the page.
But even if there is only one cert on each page below the first one, it means that at some point you owned 500 guns...
OK Pinocchio !
I am getting really tired of reading this kind of threads on CGN. Way too many BS on this site. People just keep posting BS like this.... Where is your evidence? What supports do you have?
C'mon. I don't have a Norc AR. But I just bought a DD. Is my DD more reliable than a Norc? I am not sure either. Until I really have a chance to test/ compare them. Not only one sample, but at least 3 or 5 or more.
Will I buy a Norc? Why not? just because I like to. No logic at all.
An AR is an AR. As long as it is built to spec of the DRAWING (drawing includes dimension, tolerance and material specified) then it is an AR. The DD torture test video, in my opionion, only shows what an properly made AR can be up to. Can a Norc withstand the same? I believe so.
CGN just has too many no brainers here. BS everywhere. Moderator should acts more proactively.
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"That's a 500 page stack, with even only four certs on each, that's 2000 guns...maybe more if they have more than four certs on the page.
But even if there is only one cert on each page below the first one, it means that at some point you owned 500 guns..."
What is your point? There are less certs now. Not less guns. Most new ones don't come with a reg cert.
But even if there is only one cert on each page below the first one, it means that at some point you owned 500 guns..."
What is your point? There are less certs now. Not less guns. Most new ones don't come with a reg cert.
Canadian eh!
Regular
So at some point you owned thousands of guns?
That's a 500 page stack, with even only four certs on each, that's 2000 guns...maybe more if they have more than four certs on the page.
But even if there is only one cert on each page below the first one, it means that at some point you owned 500 guns...
OK Pinocchio !
I have met him, trust me, he has a ton of guns.....
I know guy with a lot of guns..... Let's say 250 guns and I was impressed by the room.... but 2000 guns in one house is incredible. Just put oil on them every years take weeks.
I don't know if someone in Canada own 2000 guns, if yes it's a lucky bastard
I don't know if someone in Canada own 2000 guns, if yes it's a lucky bastard
Not true at all. You want to talk about no QC? look up any NEA thread. I have seen pics of NEA recievers that look like a blind ape made them with a rock. I have never seen a nork AR that looked half as bad as those NEA uppers, the machinist working at NEA should have his ticket pulled for gross incompetence.
So at some point you owned thousands of guns?
That's a 500 page stack, with even only four certs on each, that's 2000 guns...maybe more if they have more than four certs on the page.
But even if there is only one cert on each page below the first one, it means that at some point you owned 500 guns...
OK Pinocchio !
500 guns is more than possible. I did an estate sale of guns about 15 years ago. The husband died and his wife called us. The guy had more than 400 just rifles. probably 50 handguns and a pile of machineguns. And that was AFTER the police took all the really cool stuff (mortars, piats and other fun stuff.) That and Having met Ganderite I will tell you he has no need to lie about the size of his collection.
Runningfool
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Sweet Jesus you must be a barrel of fun to work with! Isn't that the third time you've mentioned how the machinist at NEA should be fired for gross incompetence? Oh but you've "seen pics"...Well there is the verdict folks!
I'm sorry that there haven't been any recent NEA problem threads for the usual suspects to jump all over - perhaps NEA's QC is on track now or maybe everyone is having problems but can't be bothered to post about them, I don't know. In the mean time I guess threads like this one will have to do.
Getting back to the original issue, the difference in chamber between the Norc and the DD.
A friend just brought over his Lyman 223 sizer. Brass sized in that die fits the DD chamber just fine. My Lee die has worn out.
I had assumed it was a carbide die, but it is not, so I am not surprised that a few 100 thousand sizings has worn it out. A new one is on order.
Comparing 4 chambers, only the DD will not chamber brass sized in my Lee die. It will fit my match chamber, but is snug, and the brass easily chambers in the Norc and SGW chambers.
I will make a batch of ammo with the Lyman die so the DD has something to eat until my new die arrives.
I will also use it to size brass for the accuracy comparison. I will use once-fired IVI for that exercise, to take some variables out of the equation.
I only have one DD, so cannot comment on whether or not the DD chambers are tighter than others. My guess is that this chamber was cut with a reamer near the end of its life.
A friend just brought over his Lyman 223 sizer. Brass sized in that die fits the DD chamber just fine. My Lee die has worn out.
I had assumed it was a carbide die, but it is not, so I am not surprised that a few 100 thousand sizings has worn it out. A new one is on order.
Comparing 4 chambers, only the DD will not chamber brass sized in my Lee die. It will fit my match chamber, but is snug, and the brass easily chambers in the Norc and SGW chambers.
I will make a batch of ammo with the Lyman die so the DD has something to eat until my new die arrives.
I will also use it to size brass for the accuracy comparison. I will use once-fired IVI for that exercise, to take some variables out of the equation.
I only have one DD, so cannot comment on whether or not the DD chambers are tighter than others. My guess is that this chamber was cut with a reamer near the end of its life.
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
So because nea also has qc issues (which I would also never buy) norinco can't?
What a ridiculous argument.
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
What evidence do I have?
Well they dont list what their rifles are made from (ie types of steel an aluminum and processes with which they are manufactured) so like I said unknown materials....
I have personally held 3 norc ar's with misaligned flash hiders So that illustrates their utter lack of qc.
What I posted is not bs but personal observations I have made of these rifles.
Any AR might be any AR to you but to me that is not the case.
One is a toy for big boys with little cash, and the others are tools for big boys who appreciate quality and respect their own lives to much to play fast and loose with a tool they may have to rely on at some point.
That's a sack of pompous, bullsh*t. The odds of you ever relying on an AR for anything more than bragging rights are far, far longer than the odds of you getting a letter from the Feds after the next election, telling you AR's are now prohib and it's time for you to drop it off at the local gunshop for destruction. Norinco sells the products of various state owned factories, at this point in time I'm pretty sure there are at least 3 distinct factories producing "Norinco" AR15's so exactly which factory do you suppose produced your 3 samples, and do you suppose all factories produce identical products? Also, is the lack of a peel washer really an indication of poor QC - because I've seen some pretty spendy (comparatively) AR's with some sh*t that would send you shrieking into the night. Bushmaster with a loose gas block ($1200), S&W with an unstaked (not improperly staked, totally unstaked) gas key($1500), and then of course there are the disasters we saw here from the early NEA situation($1000+) (and I write that truly hopeful that NEA's issues are done with). As far as metallurgy goes, there are still people who will try to sell the idea that Chinese metallurgy is inferior, it is not, as has been proven, the Chinese military industrial complex is as capable as any in the world, and since China has no civillian/commercial sales outlet in it's home market, that includes the stuff that gets exported to Canadian civvies. The idea that "they" don't 'list what their rifles are made of' is much more to do with the way the rifles are imported (several smallish importers purchasing rifles without support, on spec). The fact is that "Norinco" really isn't geared toward selling products to civillians, it is geared toward selling complete armies to client nations, this contributes to the lack of advertising bling and full page spreads in your favorite tacticool magazine. The US ban doesn't help either. From day 1 that these things became available until today I have not heard of a single catastrophic failure, or for that matter major component failure (BCG/Bolt/barrel/trigger group/selector/etc) in a Norinco branded AR15 - if you have please provide first hand details and/or pictures. It's been a few years now, and at least one shooter has gone over 10,000 rounds without failure and many are in the 3-5,000 round range without a serious malfunction - if there was a serious defect in materials it would have shown up long ago. The reality is they work, they cost less, they aren't as well finished but still manage to be acceptably accurate, and you personally are looking for reasons to justify the fact that you chose to buy a more expensive version of the same rifle - that's your choice, but quit trying to bullsh*t people into believing that the rifle they purchased is somehow a risk to their safety. Are they a DD/LMT/Stag etc? No. Are they unsafe? No. If I owned one (at the present time I do not, but I have had 2 of them, and I've had 2 Colts as well, by the way) would I trade it for a shiney new Bushmaster? No effing way.
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Sweet Jesus you must be a barrel of fun to work with! Isn't that the third time you've mentioned how the machinist at NEA should be fired for gross incompetence? Oh but you've "seen pics"...Well there is the verdict folks!
I'm sorry that there haven't been any recent NEA problem threads for the usual suspects to jump all over - perhaps NEA's QC is on track now or maybe everyone is having problems but can't be bothered to post about them, I don't know. In the mean time I guess threads like this one will have to do.
Pictures don't lie. Every ticketed machinist I showed those pictures to said the same thing. Those defects were the result of incompetence. As for NEA's QC now I have no idea. Maybe the Canadian shooting public wised up and stopped supporting a company who clearly doesn't care what kind of sh!t goes out the door with their name on it.
My $0.02:
The majority of AR jams are because of the original design. You can spend 1M on your AR however SKS will still beat it on reliability - M43 is simly much easier on rifle action than SS109.
On the quality, you guys may want to talk to CanAm, whi has been in more Chinese military factories than any other Canadian.
The majority of AR jams are because of the original design. You can spend 1M on your AR however SKS will still beat it on reliability - M43 is simly much easier on rifle action than SS109.
On the quality, you guys may want to talk to CanAm, whi has been in more Chinese military factories than any other Canadian.
