Decisions decisions !

Seafury said:
I can put a picture of a dime sized group up and claim it was shot a 700 yds on a windy day with garbage ammo. Those postings mean nothing. That is unless shot under supervision of witnesses who will verify that it happened. Group sizes are the inverse of fish sizes.

It's humorous to me that bone Stock Norinco's are reported to shoot MOA groups when the best NM competitors with the best NM rifles can do it on their best days. It's a disservice to anyone reading these posts as they end up expecting the same when 95% of us shooters couldn't do it with iron sights from the bench on bags. You'll never see me post group sizes for that reason.
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It baffles me why you think anyone would bother posting pictures of fake groups, particularly when they also post their failed attempts. It's one thing for memories to aggrandize over time, but do you really think people are desperate enough for such meagre bragging rights that they'll actually fabricate photographic evidence of something so irrelevant to real life? I think your extreme skepticism says more about you than it does about anyone else.

Personally, if I wanted to really show off I'd just post pictures of my enormous junk :rolleyes:
 
Pop said:
Personally, if I wanted to really show off I'd just post pictures of my enormous junk :rolleyes:
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Awww Pop. Why'd ya have to put that mental image in my head? Now I'm going to have to get out the eye and brain bleach just so I can keep my dinner down....!!
 
Pr589 said:
Awww Pop. Why'd ya have to put that mental image in my head? Now I'm going to have to get out the eye and brain bleach just so I can keep my dinner down....!!
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Well at least I didn't mention my hairy third nipple...oh wait...sorry I guess that didn't help...
 
Pop said:
It baffles me why you think anyone would bother posting pictures of fake groups, particularly when they also post their failed attempts. It's one thing for memories to aggrandize over time, but do you really think people are desperate enough for such meagre bragging rights that they'll actually fabricate photographic evidence of something so irrelevant to real life? I think your extreme skepticism says more about you than it does about anyone else.

Personally, if I wanted to really show off I'd just post pictures of my enormous junk :rolleyes:
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I don't know about you but I'm skeptical that $500 M 14 rifles can perform as well as expensive Match prepared versions particularly when used by people who are not properly trained and don't shoot enough. Myself included.

If you don't understand where my distrust of people comes just get you vehicle serviced at a dealership.
 
Seafury said:
I don't know about you but I'm skeptical that $500 M 14 rifles can perform as well as expensive Match prepared versions...
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I work with Linux and run into this attitude every single day and I've made a living out of proving it wrong. Maybe that's got something to do with why I like tinkering with Norcs so much.

We're running a bootstrap clinic here on the 23rd&24th of May and anyone there can see for themselves if my tuned Norc can shoot if they like. Seafury, if you want to make the trip I'll even let you try her out - just bring a box of FGMM with you, no free ammo for people who call me a liar. Heck, you could bring along your Springfields too and give everyone something to drool over.

Getting back to the point I was trying to make, 1/2 MOA isn't a reasonable expectation out of the M-14 platform and I wanted to clarify that on the off-chance Leonard misconstrued what TT had said. Assuming anything on the internet can ever be believed (do any of us even really exist at all? :rolleyes:) there are a few high-end professionally tuned M14-pattern rifles that can reliably turn in sub-MOA results, but that would be like the Holy Grail of home-tinkered rifles.
 
Pop said:
I work with Linux and run into this attitude every single day and I've made a living out of proving it wrong. Maybe that's got something to do with why I like tinkering with Norcs so much.

We're running a bootstrap clinic here on the 23rd&24th of May and anyone there can see for themselves if my tuned Norc can shoot if they like. Seafury, if you want to make the trip I'll even let you try her out - just bring a box of FGMM with you, no free ammo for people who call me a liar. Heck, you could bring along your Springfields too and give everyone something to drool over.

Getting back to the point I was trying to make, 1/2 MOA isn't a reasonable expectation out of the M-14 platform and I wanted to clarify that on the off-chance Leonard misconstrued what TT had said. Assuming anything on the internet can ever be believed (do any of us even really exist at all? :rolleyes:) there are a few high-end professionally tuned M14-pattern rifles that can reliably turn in sub-MOA results, but that would be like the Holy Grail of home-tinkered rifles.
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My intention is not to call any one individual a liar. I'm sorry if you took it that way. My comment is directed at the forum in general particularly the argumentative threads from the past where numerous people have reported MOA performance from stock Norincos when I don't think you can expect that from an LRB or a Springfield for that matter. It's misleading to the new guys who one of which quite recently suggested a shim and gas piston would make the rifle a tack driver. It sets people up for disappointment. The volume of M305's on the EE is probably a result of that. Everyone that gets a rifle that shoots 3" thinks they have a lemon.

When items are mass produced there are on occasion examples where everything seems to work out perfectly. I can remember one 340 Duster in particular that stock from the factory could beat all comers when on paper it was at a severe disadvantage. Must have been built on a Wednesday. Honestly though its hard to imagine that a standard weight chrome lined barrel will deliver outstanding accuracy. 1.5" groups for a service rifle are just that. I don't expect it from mine. And you are correct some guys do post poor results but it usually is in an effort to get some help.

I've looked at buying a Norinco myself for the fun of tinkering. I have enough extra parts to get a pretty good start but when I add up the cost I figure better to begin with a different receiver. It was this thread that has inspired me to buy the best components and see what I can do. Saskatoon is a nice city. About the right size and very clean. Can't guarantee I'll make it up there but we'll see. If you won't drool on my rifle I won't drool on your targets.
 
Seafury said:
My intention is not to call any one individual a liar. I'm sorry if you took it that way. My comment is directed at the forum in general particularly the argumentative threads from the past where numerous people have reported MOA performance from stock Norincos when I don't think you can expect that from an LRB or a Springfield for that matter. It's misleading to the new guys who one of which quite recently suggested a shim and gas piston would make the rifle a tack driver. It sets people up for disappointment. The volume of M305's on the EE is probably a result of that. Everyone that gets a rifle that shoots 3" thinks they have a lemon.

When items are mass produced there are on occasion examples where everything seems to work out perfectly. I can remember one 340 Duster in particular that stock from the factory could beat all comers when on paper it was at a severe disadvantage. Must have been built on a Wednesday. Honestly though its hard to imagine that a standard weight chrome lined barrel will deliver outstanding accuracy. 1.5" groups for a service rifle are just that. I don't expect it from mine. And you are correct some guys do post poor results but it usually is in an effort to get some help.

I've looked at buying a Norinco myself for the fun of tinkering. I have enough extra parts to get a pretty good start but when I add up the cost I figure better to begin with a different receiver. It was this thread that has inspired me to buy the best components and see what I can do. Saskatoon is a nice city. About the right size and very clean. Can't guarantee I'll make it up there but we'll see. If you won't drool on my rifle I won't drool on your targets.
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Fair enough and well met :)

I agree that keeping expectations realistic for people getting involved with these rifles is important, but sometimes the horse really does learn to speak and it would be a shame to discourage anyone from trying to get the best out of them if they want to.

I promise to practice full drool safety precautions, we'd be glad to have you there if you can make it :cheers:
 
I have been telling this forum the same thing since I joined here in 2006..... If yer m14 type rifle shoots 5 shot groups at 100M into 3 inches or less.... Smile you have a keeper.
It is a battle rifle, not a poodle shooter
Minute of man... Not minute of angle LOL
Enuff said ;)
 
Just picked up the rifle from P&D in Edmonton this morning.
Got the norinco M305 - shorty.

I actually had the springfield and the norinco side by side and asside from a couple imperfections like a fatter front site and a few markings on the barrel that were small to say the least.

the two guns were very very similar.

i looked in the gun and down the bore and all looked smooth and no burrs ect on either gun.

then i decided to just take the norinco

the action to me felt the same when i was working it also.

I nearly bought the wood version but i figured i can get a wood stock myself the 250$ difference and likely even get a USGI stock for that or close to that.


PSS: I also went to 6 differnt gun stores and parts stores in edmonton today.
I could find not one single store with any M14 parts or accessory's ... sigh.
 
leonard said:
Just picked up the rifle from P&D in Edmonton this morning.
Got the norinco M305 - shorty.

I actually had the springfield and the norinco side by side and asside from a couple imperfections like a fatter front site and a few markings on the barrel that were small to say the least.

the two guns were very very similar.

i looked in the gun and down the bore and all looked smooth and no burrs ect on either gun.

then i decided to just take the norinco

the action to me felt the same when i was working it also.

I nearly bought the wood version but i figured i can get a wood stock myself the 250$ difference and likely even get a USGI stock for that or close to that.


PSS: I also went to 6 differnt gun stores and parts stores in edmonton today.
I could find not one single store with any M14 parts or accessory's ... sigh.
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Great news, sounds like you got the pick of the litter for sure!

Parts are pretty much online-only for us up here, but TreelineM14 is great to deal with and Brownells is always solid too. Armtac stocks a lot of M14 stuff too but their inventory is often low and their prices can be a little high.

I was totally seduced by a twin pair of the Minelli wood shorties last spring and I couldn't leave the store without them, so I totally understand the draw. Boyds makes a great M14 stock too though, and TreelineM14 usually has some real lookers in their USGI inventory.

Congratulations and welcome to the sick and twisted world of M14 addiction :cool:
 
leonard said:
Just picked up the rifle from P&D in Edmonton this morning.
Got the norinco M305 - shorty.

PSS: I also went to 6 differnt gun stores and parts stores in edmonton today.
I could find not one single store with any M14 parts or accessory's ... sigh.
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Congrats on the new "toy". The NorcM305 shorty got me hooked on the platform. Mine was tweaked by Barney and it shot great. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I did with mine.
I've been all over the Canadian sites looking for some basic tools (gas cylinder wrench, gas system cleaning drills, etc) and some other small items but everywhere seems to be sold out. Search goes on…..any suggestions anyone?
 
Barney usually has some castle nut wrenches. All of my tools and parts have had to come from the US.
 
Magwedge might still make a bolt tool.... Sfrc has a gas cylinder wrench, brownels for vices, clymer reamers and headspace gauges, throat and muzzle guages ect... Kuhnhaussen manual for bedding fixtures and such but you have to make em. And yomamma had some nifty bolt roller greasers a while back...
 
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Cleaned the cosmoline off everything , cleaned and lightly oiled the wiped the barrel and the gas system out , and wiped the rest of the gun down with a protective film of silicone wipe cloth from a outers gun cloth.

Boiling water really got that cosmoline off decently.

and everything seem'ed smooth.

I can see now why you could want to change the spring guide also.
 
How tight is the fit of the op. rod guide and the gas lock?

Now you have to get out there and dirty that old girl up ;)
 
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