Defense against BEARS.

The handgun option has the advantage that the gun is always with you when you need it. It's not left in the cabin, the tent, or leaning against a rock behind the bear that suddenly appeared out of nowhere. The downside is that it is much more difficult to shoot well, and compared to a long gun it lacks power, so it's bullet must be placed with greater precision. I would sooner see your sister in law armed with a .30/30 she can shoot well under any circumstances, than a big bore she cannot. The implicit danger of the M-305 or the 12 ga is that the guns are heavy enough, and shotgun ammo bulky enough, that the guns get will be left in the tent once she becomes complacent after not seeing a bear after a few days. And she might stay there a month and not see one, or she might see a half dozen within a mile of her camp on the helicopter ride in.

Yes I've committed that, I mean yes I've considered that. I cant speak for her as to how complacant she may be, You know how public opinion sways people into hiding their gun or leaving it at camp. So perhaps as a precuasion she should carry the pistol as well the shotgun, because if anything she can conceal the pistol. Or if nothing else have the pistol in the back pack while she’s hiking, and the shotgun on her shoulder, and vice-versa while she’s working( well the shotgun at the ready atleast.) However I'd advise her to just put up with the shotgun and public opinion and keep it on her at all times, and to hell with the pistol. But you know how people can be...

Problem bears are often the juvenile males who are trying to make a place for themselves in the world, and like human teenagers sometimes have a chip on their shoulder. The chances are, if she doesn't seek out a close range encounter with a bear, she won't have one, but the possibility exits. If she has a problem, the bear she has to shoot might weight 300 pounds, or it might weigh 1500. All bears of all species have distinct personalities, compared to a herd of antelope lets say, who are essentially clones of one another, and who act and react in a predictable manner. That is one of the challenges to knowing how a bear might react in any given situation. When you think he'll do this or that, he'll do something that hasn't occurred to you.

I guess its all just hoping you don’t run into one, and being observant at all times so you don’t get caught off guard. because I would put little faith in a shotgun up against a 1500 pound :eek: animal.

If you haven't already, get the books on bear attacks by James Garry Shelton, he has a set of 3 published, and the book "Bear Attacks, Their Causes and Avoidance" by Stephen Herrero. These 4 should be mandatory ready by anyone who intends to work alone in bear country. Shelton's books might be more suitable to her immediate needs, although he straight up states that he has no polar bear knowledge. Herrero and his son have both been to Churchill.

I dont have them, but I'll be getting them rest assured.

In the meantime, talk to the girl, and find out from her the general area where she will be working, the time of year she will be in camp, the duration of her stay, the number of people involved on the ground, and a rough idea of the budget for the exercise. Will she have helicopter support? Will she have an ATV or Rhino type vehicle? If she is near a lake or river, will she have a boat or canoe? How far inland will she be working, or is she right on the coast? Does she have any idea how bad the bugs will be, how strong the winds can get, or that it can snow in mid July when a storm comes off the bay?

I cant speak for her, but I'd guess she does not currently know about all these things, however that’s just an assumption, but she has done a bit of globe trotting in the past. So she probably researches the area she's headed into, hell that’s what I would do, especially in an environment such as that. I'll advise that she do so in any case.

The biggest problem that I can foresee for her is that once she has become focused on her work, she could be oblivious to what is happening around her. This can result in not only bear problems, but weather and tide problems as well, resulting in being cut off from her camp and food for some period of time, resulting in discomfort, and in extreme cases loss of life, particularly if she gets wet and then the temperature drops.

Well I can only hope she has experienced local (armed) assistance, this doesn’t sound like the sort of place you can understand and survive in, from just reading books and researching on the internet. I'll be damn sure to find out how prepared she is for these things, and how prepared the ones who are arranging the expedition are. I have found such people are not quite as complacent as I often fear them to be, They do this stuff all over the world and come back in one piece for the most part. But theirs a first time for everything.

Thanks for your help, its probably made this thread well worth all the flaming I'm picking up on account.cou: But it's all in good fun I guess, So I’ll try to rise above it.:)
 
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bear defense... The best conceal carry weapon ever made
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It's irrelevant what you find easier to shoot with. It is relevant what your sister in law is comfortable with.

I still recommend that you get her some training with someone that actually has knowledge of bears, or get her to post here herself.

She wont be found on any forums, she doesn’t like them and I'm beginning to see why. And yes, she DOES disserve better help than I can give her, and theirs no saying she wont get it, but as far as this thread is going, aside from "Boomer" and a few helpful others, no-ones trying to give any help. They are just posting criticism.
No I'm not you, no I don’t have your stock in large bore rifles, but I'm doing what I can with what I've got, because no-one has got anything better that I know of. I'm hopping to get a Norinco M-305 with a synthetic stock, or a sage mod zero light weight collapsible combat stock, and some AIA mags. but that’s a big bill, however its the best gun I think she could have for what she’s doing, it doesn’t weigh a ton, its compact when its collapsed. and its got good fire power that a small girl like her can handle without being knocked on her ass. Basically it puts out a volume of fire rather than one big lethal blast.

Honestly, I’m not trying to offend any of you, you are all more experienced than me in terns of big game hunting, -or are good a pretending to be. (I'm not directing this at you or anyone in specific.)
So treat me as someone who doesn’t fully understand. I think about situations, take what I've heard, add in what experience I've got, and try to apply it to a problem. Its not always right as you have clearly noticed, or is it as good a real life experience, but its better than just walking in ignorant and unprepared.
 
She wont be found on any forums, she doesn’t like them and I'm beginning to see why. And yes, she DOES disserve better help than I can give her, and theirs no saying she wont get it, but as far as this thread is going, aside from "Boomer" and a few helpful others, no-ones trying to give any help. They are just posting criticism.
No I'm not you, no I don’t have your stock in large bore rifles, but I'm doing what I can with what I've got, because no-one has got anything better that I know of. I'm hopping to get a Norinco M-305 with a synthetic stock, or a sage mod zero light weight collapsible combat stock, and some AIA mags. but that’s a big bill, however its the best gun I think she could have for what she’s doing, it doesn’t weigh a ton, its compact when its collapsed. and its got good fire power that a small girl like her can handle without being knocked on her ass. Basically it puts out a volume of fire rather than one big lethal blast.

Honestly, I’m not trying to offend any of you, you are all more experienced than me in terns of big game hunting, -or are good a pretending to be. (I'm not directing this at you or anyone in specific.)
So treat me as someone who doesn’t fully understand. I think about situations, take what I've heard, add in what experience I've got, and try to apply it to a problem. Its not always right as you have clearly noticed, or is it as good a real life experience, but its better than just walking in ignorant and unprepared.

You've had lots of advice, you just dont' want to listen. You want to debate with people that have far more knowledge than you do about the merits of your selections.

Here is what you should do-

Get at least one of Gary Sheltons books for her to read.

Take the stupid pistol grips off your 870, and install the regular forend and buttstock.

Get some 2 3/4" trap loads

Take her to range and get her comfy shooting those, preferably at milk jugs or something reactive, so she can see what she is hitting.

Swap to 2 3/4" slugs and get her to practice a few of those, probably no more than 3 or 5 per session.

Track down some 2 3/4" Brenneke or Challenger slugs if you can, for her to use when she is working. They kill better than regular foster style slugs. 2 3/4" slugs will kill just as good as 3", but with less recoil.

Quit pissing around coming up with stupid tactical folding stock M-305 bull#### solutions. If you want to play mall ninja, go for it, but not at the expense of her safety.

A simple shotgun that she has fired 100 times with trap loads and 20 slug loads will work better for her than any pistol grip ninja gun or combat stock 305 or whatever....
 
I'm gonna get a pet bear. With metal armour. Just for camping. But not a sharkbear. That would be cruel.


What's this???
You got something against sharkbears or what???
FYI Sharkbears are as good as any other bear and they have the advantage of being amphibious so they can be used as a floating device if you camp by a lake!!
You... you... you Sharkbear racist!!! ;)
 
Don't sweat it M-1. Part of the measure of someone is how well they take it when others take the piss.

You got great advice from Boomer and Gatehouse. Others gave some decent advice and still others had a full on party over all the goofy stuff said - some of it at your expense. Be proud of your bear thread: it's a one stop shop from BS to Bear Safety.
 
Racist no. Realist yes. My bear will never date nor even be seen with a sharkbear. On another note I concur with what gatehouse said keep it simple and get the book.
 
Just tell her to bring you along! Just tell her if you see a bear to run! I'm sure the bear will be full after he eats you and she will be safe and sound.

Sorry but I cant resist! It's nothing personal M1 but this thread has been very entertaining. Really tell her to read the books there is lots of good suggestions.
 
I used to have Gary's website around, but misplaced it, it had more interesting info, and if anything his contact info.

If she is going to work in a situation where she might be at risk, then perhaps sending her to one of his workshops would make a nice gift.

That is if he still does them.
 
You've had lots of advice, you just dont' want to listen. You want to debate with people that have far more knowledge than you do about the merits of your selections.

Here is what you should do-

Get at least one of Gary Sheltons books for her to read.

Take the stupid pistol grips off your 870, and install the regular forend and buttstock.

Get some 2 3/4" trap loads

Take her to range and get her comfy shooting those, preferably at milk jugs or something reactive, so she can see what she is hitting.

Swap to 2 3/4" slugs and get her to practice a few of those, probably no more than 3 or 5 per session.

Track down some 2 3/4" Brenneke or Challenger slugs if you can, for her to use when she is working. They kill better than regular foster style slugs. 2 3/4" slugs will kill just as good as 3", but with less recoil.

Quit pissing around coming up with stupid tactical folding stock M-305 bulls**t solutions. If you want to play mall ninja, go for it, but not at the expense of her safety.

A simple shotgun that she has fired 100 times with trap loads and 20 slug loads will work better for her than any pistol grip ninja gun or combat stock 305 or whatever....

Great advice, the only thing I'd add is to buy her a PAST recoil pad, the one you wear like a shoulder holster and have her wear it when she trains with the shotgun.
 
A guy I work with was pulled away from his rifle by a bear. He killed it with a knife. One jab to the eye and then the jugular.

He was in the hospital a long time. Barely got out of the bush alive from bleading.
 
There is a school, just outside of Pahrump, Nevada, that puts on an outstanding tactical shotgun course. In my class, several women learned to handle 12 and 20 gauge shotguns very well. One woman of quite small stature had difficulty until the cadre located a 20 gauge pump (a personal firearm, I believe) and convinced her to only load four or five rounds in the tube, to keep the muzzle weight down. She came in second in a 'mano-mano' (mano-womano?) shoot-off amonst twenty of us.

Four days, about 350 rounds, lots of slugs, SSG, and birdshot to develop administrative skills. For a sister, gf, wife, or other loved one going in harms way, there could be no better gift. And, for weapon choices, a well applied 20 gauge slug, followed up, (if time permits) with another well applied 20 gauge slug, will be as decisive as any other projectile, and more effective than any poorly applied projectile from a weapon she cannot handle. Standard stock, 18 inch barrel, five round tube, semi or pump, depending on willingness to master manual of arms, the gun will be as good as her willingness to carry it!
 
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