Dominion Arms Outlaw Owners ONLY poll-Apr. 4 Tally results: YES 88.5% NO 11.5%

OWNERS ONLY: Are you happy with your Dominion Arms Outlaw?


  • Total voters
    230
Yes I fear that I have met my match:eek:

Actually your poll is exceeding my wildest dreams:dancingbanana:
If this does not convey a message, I do not know what will? Thanks to dose and his excellent pics and post as well. The end.

You still have not responded to my question regarding your use of the polls preliminary statitistics after referring to it as "unscientific" and only "good for pissing on".

You have not answered my question regarding your accusation that the poll is in your words "stacked".
 
I feel for you geologist. Any time someone starts a thread in order to gain or share knowledge, it gets polluted by verbal diarrhea. People just can't STFU when they do not have anything intelligent to say.

Your original post was crystal clear as to your intent of obtaining fact based observations from owners only. You have not expressed that you were the great defender of Norinco, simply that you wanted to gather data.
 
I believe the poll is very good. Dosing's pictures are also excellent and much appreciated. They confirm my own conclusions about these guns after shooting and taking apart a Norinco JW2000 a couple of years ago. The Norinco is the same gun with 20" barrels and may even be made in the same factory as the Outlaw.

Context is important when discussing a gun. I'm not much of a photographer compared to Dosing but here are three pictures of a gun I own. It is a 12 gauge Spanish sidelock, one of the lowest priced guns from a current maker. It's more expensive than an Outlaw but closer to the Chinese gun in price than a Purdey or Holland and Holland.

The Outlaw in Dosing's pictures is new. I have owned this gun for close to 10 years and it has at least 10 thousand rounds through it between hunting, practice and sxs clay shoots. It has also been shot in every kind of weather imaginable including driving rain storms, a blizzard or two and blazing sunshine.

The only time this gun let me down was when a firing pin bent and I was getting occasional misfires. It was an inexpensive repair because the gun came from the factory with spare pins. In the meantime the gun is still tight and on the face.

The lock.

P1010363.jpg


The breach. The cross hatching on the ejectors is wearing because they press against the breach face when closed and the gun gets opened and closed more often than fired.

P1010367.jpg


Another angle of the breech.

P1010370.jpg


My view on the workmanship in the Chinese sxs hasn't changed and the pictures and poll confirm that for me. And even the people who like these guns seem to admit they like it only in the context of the low price.

I don't have enough money to throw it away on poor quality guns that won't stand up to sustained shooting. Give me the $300 for an Outlaw and my preference would be to buy shells and shoot the guns I have but each to his own and YMMV.

What I'd really like to see is a similar set of photos from someone with the CZ coach gun. Having examined one in a gun store, I suspect the parts would look close to my gun than an Outlaw. Anybody have one they would like to take apart and post pictures of?
 
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A lifelong committment to shooting and shooting safety compels me to comment on this gun even though I don't own one.

I'm a good judge of gun flesh having owned, shot and repaired many over the years. I still have a couple of custom rifles I built myself.

American, English, Chinese, Russian, Swedish, Finnish, home made doesn't matter.

What matters is materials, design, quality, workmanship and most of all safety.

I personally would be leery of firing the Outlaw in the picture. That butcher job with what was apparently a course file is disgusting.

Anything that looks that bad on the outside might be bad on the inside as well.

The gun looks like it was made by a five year old kid turned loose on his dad's lathe.

The hundred or so bucks you save buying an obvious piece of crap like the Outlaw won't buy you replacement eyes or fingers should it decide to blow apart in your hands.

$50 Yank or $75CDN would be top end for this gun.

It's too short for a paddle and too light for an anchor.
 
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They confirm my own conclusions about these guns after shooting and taking apart a Norinco JW2000 a couple of years ago. The Norinco is the same gun with 20" barrels and may even be made in the same factory as the Outlaw.

Watson, we got a winner, made more obvious by the fact that on the bottom of the barrels it says "JW2000". ;)

:shotgun: I agree with the comments that this gun is not as refined as some may want, like or expect, which is why I have no qualms about posting the pics I did, or the posts relating to issues of misaligned screws etc. In truth, I would only rate them on par with lakefield products of the 1980s, or Savage rifles of the 80s or early 90s etc. They could be better, they could have a nice engine turned lock and internals, and the price could be 3 or 4 times as high. Indeed, would I have bought a Norc Coach gun with 20 inch tubes for this price, hell no, for the same reason I haven't bought a M305; namely when it comes to those items I want more from the start. But in this case a Norc with nice wood, and 12inch barrels (I know some people have a hard time coping with that) is worth 300$s. Comparing these to any other SXS that hasn't got ludicrously short barrels is to miss the point, these guns are about fun, naughtiness and image.
To those who have been involved in what I see as a negative light in these threads, I would merely point out that what makes the Outlaw great, is its low price, and 12inch barrels, it is a toy, pure and simple. I have no doubts, unlike some it seems, about the Chinese people, and Norincos ability to make something better. I am sure if you wanted it smoother, nicer, with more manhours invested in each gun, they could do it, and the price would have to reflect it. I did not expect a porsche when I bought this, I expected an entry level mustang, thats what I feel I got. It works, but needs alot of refinement to make it into a Porsche, for me, the discussion ends there.
 
CB:

Great post. That's a beautiful SXS.

I have lots of respect to guys like you, who insist a shotgun must be beautiful inside out.

I am a rifle guy so normally I do not care much about the finishing, but I am considering a better finished SXS on top of my Outlaw so I can do some comparing.

Anyhow, I am sure Outlaw, with your help, is bring lot more attention into SXS world - it's a good thing.
 
You still have not responded to my question regarding your use of the polls preliminary statitistics after referring to it as "unscientific" and only "good for pissing on".

You have not answered my question regarding your accusation that the poll is in your words "stacked".



O.K. if you insist!

I responded to this thread that you started and said that your pole was not scientific and I gave you several reasons. Your response was to point out a spelling mistake and then go on to say “Good poll questions should be simple” I agree with that, but I think that good poll questions should not be for the simple minded as your questions seemed to be. That was the point of the examples I gave in my first post to this thread. Questions that can or are encouraged to be answered by a simple yes or no are often leading questions. The very definition of scientific includes words like careful and systematic study. Your questions do not qualify.

The definition of poll is very lengthy and the word scientific is never used, but the word opinion is used several times.

In general, I find that when responses start with nit picking like correcting a spelling mistake, the poster does not have a good argument. That is with the exception of Win/64 who is a spelling freak.

BTW do you mean statistics?

Stacked? Yes I think it is stacked! #1, you have included CanAm in your poll. Being the importer of this product, do you think that he would ever vote No? Now I understand that CanAm has many loyal supporters so he must have done something right. I understand your need to have hands on experience with this product to make this poll valid, but a public poll? From my time on CGN I know it is not cool to say anything about a CGN sponsor.

I will sum up. Yes I do not think your poll is scientific! The pissing on the pole comment? I will publicly take it back. It was in response to your nit picking opening. Heaven knows I have had a lot of experience with nit picking after all I put up with it from Win/64. I should know and act better. Scientific or not scientific, my point is that CanAm should know that there are significant numbers that are not happy with this product.
 
geologist,

In case you do not wish to read the long post above, there is a point I wish to make clear. A point that may get lost. Though our opinion differ, I do not know you. I am sorry that I offended you.
 
CB:

I am a rifle guy so normally I do not care much about the finishing, but I am considering a better finished SXS on top of my Outlaw so I can do some comparing.

Anyhow, I am sure Outlaw, with your help, is bring lot more attention into SXS world - it's a good thing.

If you are "a rifle guy" and don't care much about the finishing. Your not much of a "rifle guy". Your post doesn't make any sense. :rolleyes:
 
If you are "a rifle guy" and don't care much about the finishing. Your not much of a "rifle guy". Your post doesn't make any sense. :rolleyes:

Have no idea what you are talking about.

But I will explain what I mean.

The rifle I am playing at this time is an old model Savage Packaging 270.

It's finishing quality is "maybe" a little bit better than Nork. The ring is cheapest I have even seen. The stock is the softest one I have touched. The scope - I don't even want to talk about it.

It's so cheap looking that I always bring a SAKO with it to the range.

Why did I buy it? SAVAGE accuracy, that's the function of this rifle. That's what I care.

Did I get it? You decide:

3258726619_0576df7b79_b.jpg


That's the story of another rough gun.
 
Have no idea what you are talking about.

But I will explain what I mean.

The rifle I am playing at this time is an old model Savage Packaging 270.

It's finishing quality is "maybe" a little bit better than Nork. The ring is cheapest I have even seen. The stock is the softest one I have touched.

Is that what they call a "soft touch" stock? How soft was it?
 
Have no idea what you are talking about.

But I will explain what I mean.

The rifle I am playing at this time is an old model Savage Packaging 270.

It's finishing quality is "maybe" a little bit better than Nork. The ring is cheapest I have even seen. The stock is the softest one I have touched. The scope - I don't even want to talk about it.

It's so cheap looking that I always bring a SAKO with it to the range.

Why did I buy it? SAVAGE accuracy, that's the function of this rifle. That's what I care.

Did I get it? You decide:

3258726619_0576df7b79_b.jpg


That's the story of another rough gun.

:D
I have a Browning BLR in .308 Win. at probably several times the money you paid for that Savage that I wish would print that same 200 yard group of yours at 100 yards.

Goes to show you that brand name & price aren't everything.

Of course, the Browning I have is a "wannabe" Japanese Browning & not a "real" Belgium Browning.......that might explain it.

Life Memberships: NRA, GOA, CSSA, NFA, OFAH
CCW Permits: Utah, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine
 
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Have no idea what you are talking about.

But I will explain what I mean.

The rifle I am playing at this time is an old model Savage Packaging 270.

It's finishing quality is "maybe" a little bit better than Nork. The ring is cheapest I have even seen. The stock is the softest one I have touched. The scope - I don't even want to talk about it.

It's so cheap looking that I always bring a SAKO with it to the range.

Why did I buy it? SAVAGE accuracy, that's the function of this rifle. That's what I care.

Did I get it? You decide:

3258726619_0576df7b79_b.jpg


That's the story of another rough gun.

I am not sure what this is doing on my favorite thread? but I will bite! Not bad! Actually what I would expect of a savage package!:D Minute of mule deer or moose at reasonable range! If you want better, you should tweak your Sako. If your Sako will not do better than this, get rid of it because it is not living up to Sako reputation.:( At less than a $100.00 more than an outlaw, the savage package is a far better bang for the buck. Now I had better quit this before I get an infraction for being off topic. You were shooting without a bench, wern't you?:D
 
I own, and really enjoy my Outlaw. I don't have any pics handy, and am not in the mood to go downstairs and take any. How about a video? I wanted to see a big ball of fire muzzle flash when I had my Dad film this for me, but even slowed down to 1/8th speed, there's no flash to speak of.



I have an 870 Super Magnum, for any serious shotgunning. So long as this one is capable of busting 2l pop bottles, I'm very happy with it.
 
:D
I'm glad that I bought my Outlaw.

The shoddy stuff (on mine at least) is purely cosmetic & the gun is quite safe and will spend a lot of time in my SUVs gun box and in various pack sacks & prospector's tents.......it will be my shadow warrior.

For approx. $300, I wasn't expecting to pull out a Greener or a Purdey when I opened the box.

I have Orangutan length arms & personally like the large stock & generous recoil pad.

The gun is a bush gun, not a display gun.

It's functional & safe & the price was definitely right.

I'm happy with mine & even more so with the DA Grizzly I purchased from CanAm previous to buying the Outlaw.

I bought an economy gun to do an unglamorous utility job & that's what I got.

CanAm delivered the goods.

Life Memberships: NRA, GOA, CSSA, NFA, OFAH
CCW Permits: Utah, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine
 
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