I believe you are thinking of the 3.5" Model 27 in 357. - dan
Double Action Snubby
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I believe you are thinking of the 3.5" Model 27 in 357. - dan
I have a 3.5" S&W 686 (ported). The seller said he thought it was once the sidearm of the US Border Service.
It is heavy and quite comfortable to shoot. I am guessing the short barrel would make it good to wear in a car.
As an enthusiast, I like shooting it. As an issue gun for non-shooters, it might be a bit much.
It is heavy and quite comfortable to shoot. I am guessing the short barrel would make it good to wear in a car.
As an enthusiast, I like shooting it. As an issue gun for non-shooters, it might be a bit much.
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Ganderite,
The US Customs version was called the CS1 and, I believe, not a general issue gun to all agents. The CS1 was in 3” , 4” and possibly a 6” model.
There is a 3” 686 also.
The US Customs version was called the CS1 and, I believe, not a general issue gun to all agents. The CS1 was in 3” , 4” and possibly a 6” model.
There is a 3” 686 also.
Mine probably came to me with different grips.
Do you think it possible that mine is an ex- US Customs gun? It is ported.
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Porting can be done individually. If it’s a US Customs gun, it’ll say CS1 on the crane.
If your rear sight has no white outline and your front sight is pinned, skinny and black vs. the usual S&W with the red ramp, it might be a CS1 gun. From your pic, the matt finish looks right vs. the normal 686 stainless.
Can’t tell if your sights are pinned, due to the carbon and soot on it!
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This is correct. At the U.S./Mexico Border in or around 1992 I crossed from Mexico into the U.S. and stopped to ask if there was any paperwork I needed to do being a Canadian coming UP from Mexico for a "Day Trip" and intending to return the same day. I had no problems, but one of the agents I was talking with had a 2.5 inch Model 66. I did not inquire about what sort of ammo she had in the gun but there is no doubt it was the K-frame 66 as I got a fair amount of time to gawk at it there in her holster. Her partner had something else, and I no longer remember what it was but I do remember the baby magnum.
I asked a friend to "go take some photos" of the Queretaro range and send them to me. I will copy any good ones onto this thread as I have mentioned that range a couple of times in this thread. Maybe he can take a few shots of his snubbies, he has several, to post as well.
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Calmex, you were dealing with the US Customs or Border Service right? I think back then, they didn’t standardize on a service pistol. I was given to believe they were given a budget and could buy whatever they wanted, within some guideline, as long as they qualified on it. I used to see all kinds of handguns here at the Washington border crossings from revolvers to semi-autos. But I think they standardized, probably after 9/11, when Homeland Security was formed. But then again, I could be all wrong...
Noticed a phenomenon at our indoor (-20C at my place today) IPSC practice today, or maybe it was just common sense in action .....
A CZ Shadow shooter (who does have a Colt Anaconda) asked if he could shoot a bud's S&W 8 shot .357, so they swapped rigs. I watched closely as I always do, ignoring the targets, as I'm always interested in the style of individual shooters.
I was paying strict attention to his reload method. Instinctively, he kept the gun in his strong hand and reloaded with his left. After he was unloaded, shown clear and holstered, I asked him why he did it that way. Answer: "It never occurred to me to do it any other way."
We discussed it and agreed that it was better gun handling as the gun was easier to control muzzle wise, especially when moving laterally. At least less awkward. And logically, if one can reload a semi-auto with the left hand, why not a revolver? Would you transfer a semi-auto to reload with the right hand?
Yeah, I know Jerry Miculek reloads with his right hand, transferring the gun, but he's a Klingon. Most of us will never be in that league.
Next weekend, we will be shooting "El Presidente" as a stage and I'll show up with my revolvers. We'll see what works best .....
A CZ Shadow shooter (who does have a Colt Anaconda) asked if he could shoot a bud's S&W 8 shot .357, so they swapped rigs. I watched closely as I always do, ignoring the targets, as I'm always interested in the style of individual shooters.
I was paying strict attention to his reload method. Instinctively, he kept the gun in his strong hand and reloaded with his left. After he was unloaded, shown clear and holstered, I asked him why he did it that way. Answer: "It never occurred to me to do it any other way."
We discussed it and agreed that it was better gun handling as the gun was easier to control muzzle wise, especially when moving laterally. At least less awkward. And logically, if one can reload a semi-auto with the left hand, why not a revolver? Would you transfer a semi-auto to reload with the right hand?
Yeah, I know Jerry Miculek reloads with his right hand, transferring the gun, but he's a Klingon. Most of us will never be in that league.
Next weekend, we will be shooting "El Presidente" as a stage and I'll show up with my revolvers. We'll see what works best .....
Trying to picture how you'd reload that way around. Right thumb on the release, right trigger finger only has to shift a bit up from the safe position to push the cylinder open tilting the gun right so it doesn't flop over, left hand coming up with the speedloader/moonclip taps the ejector then comes around back of the cylinder pushes in the rounds and pushes the cylinder shut? I suspect someone who doesn't own their gun might be able to get a bit more speed swinging the cylinder over and letting momentum and gravity whack it against the crane stop, but I've always regarded that as an absolute faux pas.
Meanwhile, El Prez with more than one revolver has me picturing it as a SASS stage. Could maybe work?
I switch hands. Precisely aligning the speedloader quickly is easier if it's in my right hand and the revolver is in my left, with my left-hand fingers holding the cylinder steady. It's the way I started when I was a kiddy, and it's the way I do it now. I can do it the other way, but it is not faster and often (for me) more awkward. This is a video of the 9-pin revolver event from one of our Queretaro Pin matches, using my Model 28/23. Since it's 9-pin, the pins are at the back of the table, not 3 feet forward of the back end (which is a stage we also shoot, albeit using full-power .38 Heavy Duty Elmer Smokers). So in this video I am using .38 SWC's.
Since I broke the subject, here is one of our Club Members using my 627 in the Full Power Pin Event. This event restricts you to 6 shots, no matter how many your chosen gun might actually hold (Mexican rules). But he did fine anyway. Guns have to be ".38 S&W Special Ctg." marked, and whatever load you have has to come out of a .38 Special casing. Other than that, party's on.
After this particular match, a bullet mould arrived from "Accurate Molds" based on a 200 grain SWC bullet Michael French and I designed and I have photos of it around somewhere but it will be a few days before I have time to dig them up. This particular fat-faced SWC bullet loaded to over 1,200 fps using 2400 powder out of a 6 inch S&W is THE "Pin Killer" in the Mexican Matches these days. But when this video was made, my man was using the Elmer Keith load of a 170 grain 358429 bullet and 13.5 grains of 2400 in a .38 Special case. (** Note: this load is for .357 Revolvers or even the original N-frame "Heavy Duty" revolvers, not .38 Special run-of-the-mill revolvers.**)
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No need to let gravity whack the crane with either method. It's a matter of training.
As a CAS shooter, I shudder to think of Cowboy shooters turning and drawing. There is no SASS equivalent to the IPSC "Black Badge " course. Training is done in a much more casual manner.
I'm right-handed but sufficiently ambidextrous for most practical (shooting) purposes.
With a 1911 it makes eminent sense that the mag release button is under my right thumb and I feed in a new mag with my left hand and keep going.
With a DA revolver there are the three extra steps (after the corresponding release) of swinging the cylinder out, pushing the ejector rod back, and swinging the cylinder back (after inserting the new rounds, which corresponds to the 1911 mag insertion). If I was going for the new ammo with my left hand, I could see pushing the cylinder open with my right index finger but I'm stuck on how the spent brass gets ejected; I could either skooch the revolver back in my right hand to get to the rod (and then have to re-establish my grip after, and I dislike the lack of positive control) or wait for my left hand to get there and bop it back before going to the other end of the cylinder with the reload, or even do a left-hand eject before reaching for the reload off my belt (while the right hand could have already had the reload in hand). How do you handle that part? Which hand gets to the ejector at what point?
The H.K.S. speedloaders were advertised as "5 second loaders" at one time. Perhaps they still are. In the Mexican Practical Shooting, we tried to stress that 4.5 seconds should be considered the slowest reload you wanted to shoot for, and 3.5 would be "peachy". That way, using El Presidente as an example, if you could do the spin, draw and first 6 shots in 3 seconds -- reload in 3.5 and then finish your last 6 shots in 2.5 seconds you'd end up with a total time of 9 seconds. An acceptable time for a revolver. 8 seconds is better, but hard to do "3 time in a row on demand". The Safariland Comp III loaders and the Jet loaders seemed faster than the H.K.S. (to me, anyway), but H.K.S. was what one would probably actually carry and so it was best to maintain one's familiarity with those. (Mostly, with snubbies, people use speed strips.)
The S.L. Variant loaders were the most popular, and we had this guy in the Club who seemed to be able to always get us all we wanted. I think he got them direct out of Europe, I don't remember. But although they were pricey, they were very popular loaders. I believe in the "pin" video above I am using S.L. Variant N-frame loaders on the reload.
Here is a photo of the Lee C-358-200-RF bullet, loaded into a .38 Special case. It was our loading for the Coonan's that had come down into Mexico remarked as .38 Special Coonans -- although they were just regular off-the-shelf Coonans. The very long Lee 200 grain Round-Flat bullet was loaded to the same Max-overall length as a normal .357 round and sped out at 1,150 fps operating the Coonan's perfectly and appearing for all the World to be .38 Special ammo. Next in line is the Accurate Molds 200 Grain SWC Michael and I thrashed out. With our mix it weighted 202 grains and we loaded it up to 1,200 (and slightly plus) fps for Pin Shooting and it worked well. Lastly is a normal, regular Lee 358 SWC tumble lube bullet for comparison.
Here is a photo of my wife's Model 60 with the Lee 200 grain bullet (which is long enough to slightly prevent closure of the cylinder) we used in the Coonans and the "Big Honkin' Bullet" as we called it, the 202 grain SWC for Pin Shooting. We actually did play around with the 202 grain bullet in the snubbies and got it up to 750 fps. But it was painful to shoot and the little guns seemed to cry out in a Scottish accent "Captain, she canna take much more 'ah this!" So we abandoned that line of research.
The S.L. Variant loaders were the most popular, and we had this guy in the Club who seemed to be able to always get us all we wanted. I think he got them direct out of Europe, I don't remember. But although they were pricey, they were very popular loaders. I believe in the "pin" video above I am using S.L. Variant N-frame loaders on the reload.
Here is a photo of the Lee C-358-200-RF bullet, loaded into a .38 Special case. It was our loading for the Coonan's that had come down into Mexico remarked as .38 Special Coonans -- although they were just regular off-the-shelf Coonans. The very long Lee 200 grain Round-Flat bullet was loaded to the same Max-overall length as a normal .357 round and sped out at 1,150 fps operating the Coonan's perfectly and appearing for all the World to be .38 Special ammo. Next in line is the Accurate Molds 200 Grain SWC Michael and I thrashed out. With our mix it weighted 202 grains and we loaded it up to 1,200 (and slightly plus) fps for Pin Shooting and it worked well. Lastly is a normal, regular Lee 358 SWC tumble lube bullet for comparison.
Here is a photo of my wife's Model 60 with the Lee 200 grain bullet (which is long enough to slightly prevent closure of the cylinder) we used in the Coonans and the "Big Honkin' Bullet" as we called it, the 202 grain SWC for Pin Shooting. We actually did play around with the 202 grain bullet in the snubbies and got it up to 750 fps. But it was painful to shoot and the little guns seemed to cry out in a Scottish accent "Captain, she canna take much more 'ah this!" So we abandoned that line of research.
I have received a big pile of photos -- and some videos -- of the Queretaro Range. Pretty impressive stuff. Where should I post them? I fear posting them here would derail this thread, which is principally about the snubby guns. On the other hand, the whole thing about getting photos of that range to show came about because of interest generated by this thread. I don't want to derail the thread (more than I may have at times), so I am open to suggestions.
Too difficult to 'splain with words ....
Get some speed loaders and dummy rds. See what works for you. Or watch any number of videos on the net.
