E-111 Petition to Derestrict the AR15

R711 said:
I think that they should push the angle of native hunting. It's the main reason the Valmet, still remains non-restricted. It's so that they are better able to maintain a way of life with the usage of a modern hunting rifle. I'm native as well.
R711
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I think that is a very good idea! With current "truth and reconciliation" movement, it would really be an excellent bargaining chip.
 
Well for arguments sake since the Valmet series rifles are non-restricted despite their pedigree. The case can be made that the AR family is a logical choice for the following reasons. 1) no one manufactures the Valmet anymore, 2) native hunters need a rifle family that can kill the animals effectively and quickly ( AR 15/10), 3) vast amounts of proven technology/parts that allow for sustence hunters to afford a rifle for a more effective hunt, 4) can't be easily converted to full auto despite what the Internet and the RCMP firearms labs state 5) for a native hunter who needs to get a quick follow up shot off in a life or death situation, which may lead them to not be able to eat, 6) allows for the modernization of traditional hunting techniques.

Have you ever seen someone trying to shoot a narwhal with a bolt action, they need to get a second shot off quickly and effectively. Twofold reason, one so the hunter can eat/be successful in the hunt and for a quick humane death for the animal before it escapes and potentially dies from an agonizing wound.

The de-restriction of the AR series of rifles in both 223/308 allow for the continuation of traditional hunting techniques with the adaption of modern tools. Any other way would technically infringing upon their hunting traditions and treaty rights.

I would personally like to see the barrel restriction to 16 inches and above. Good overall length for the task at hand.
R711
 
The native argument could be a good one. I do worry about them only affording those "rights" to first nations however... I mean hell! They let Sikh guys ride motorcycles without helmets! :rolleyes:

Huh, I wasn't aware that riding a motorcycle was paramount to the integrity of the Sikh Religion. Ya learn sumthin new every day
 
I've hunted with a C7 rifle before, with the Inuit. They loved it as it allowed them to get a quick follow up shot, without having the manipulate the bolt and lose sight of the animal.
 
ChromeArty said:
The native argument could be a good one. I do worry about them only affording those "rights" to first nations however... I mean hell! They let Sikh guys ride motorcycles without helmets! :rolleyes:

Huh, I wasn't aware that riding a motorcycle was paramount to the integrity of the Sikh Religion. Ya learn sumthin new every day
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the sikh religion is paramount to sikh, everything else is secondary.

as the SCoC stated thats it thats all
 
Yes, 10 inches would e nice. However for the argument to go forward it needs to be based upon a standard for hunting. A 16 inch barrel is just as accurate as a 20 inch barrel at 300m+. However a 10inch barrel is not. If you want to succeed you must present them with logic that can not be argued out of.
 
R711 said:
Yes, 10 inches would e nice. However for the argument to go forward it needs to be based upon a standard for hunting. A 16 inch barrel is just as accurate as a 20 inch barrel at 300m+. However a 10inch barrel is not. If you want to succeed you must present them with logic that can not be argued out of.
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Sigh. Do your homework buddy. A shorter barrel is actually intrinsically more accurate, due to less "barrel whip". The "longer barrel being more accurate" is only true in the sense that having a longer sight radius with iron sights makes it easier to shoot more accurately. Considering that most hunters use optics nowadays, that point is basically moot.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...t-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/
 
Lexthedestroyer said:
Sigh. Do your homework buddy. A shorter barrel is actually intrinsically more accurate, due to less "barrel whip". The "longer barrel being more accurate" is only true in the sense that having a longer sight radius with iron sights makes it easier to shoot more accurately. Considering that most hunters use optics nowadays, that point is basically moot.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...t-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/
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Yes you are correct and no you are not
Accuracy is measured in many ways. Effectiveness is important. I don't think your 10 incher is going to be effective at 400 yards.

Velocity has a huge impact on accuracy as well as the faster the bullet goes the more rotations is goes through, stabilizing its flight path. Which is not inherently important under 200 yards, but longer shots you'll see some funny stuff (keyholing) with your 10 inch gun.
There is a reason why AR accurate platforms (mk12) are in the 18 inches.
 
Kind of a pointless argument considering what history has shown us. Look at the diffdence in barrel lengths between restricted and non restricted with the cz858. IF we are lucky enough to have the AR15 de-restricted, it will only be 18" and up. 16" would be nice, but let's not kidd ourselves.
 
mikethebike said:
Yes you are correct and no you are not
Accuracy is measured in many ways. Effectiveness is important. I don't think your 10 incher is going to be effective at 400 yards.

Velocity has a huge impact on accuracy as well as the faster the bullet goes the more rotations is goes through, stabilizing its flight path. Which is not inherently important under 200 yards, but longer shots you'll see some funny stuff (keyholing) with your 10 inch gun.
There is a reason why AR accurate platforms (mk12) are in the 18 inches.
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Not everyone needs a 400 yard rifle. Lots of 30-30s out there aren't very effective at 400 yards either... Most deer are shot within 100 yards.

Edit: If we were only permitted to hunt with the most efficient rifle in the most efficient calibre, life would be pretty dull, lol. Mike, I do enjoy the debate. Cheers mate.
 
This isn't an argument about reason, but off on that appeases a group of people who have no real idea about firearms themselves. A 10 inch barrel I know is more accurate due to barrel whip. But, which one looks less evil? Common sense for the people who are deciding these laws are not so common. They might be easily bambozzled by having a 16 inch barrel, as they would think it is more accurate and harder to hide, therefore less evil looking. Logic will never be a part of this debate, but one of liberal fear.
 
Also, if they told me tomorrow that if I were to rebarral all of my AR family to 20 inches to be non-restricted to hunt. I would do it.
 
R711 said:
Also, if they told me tomorrow that if I were to rebarral all of my AR family to 20 inches to be non-restricted to hunt. I would do it.
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You and me both friend. That is, if a 20" barrel could be obtained at that point, lol. I suspect supply would not be able to keep up with demand for some time, were that to happen.
 
If we get ANY ARs to non-restricted status we will all be giggling like little girls, a few inches differences notwithstanding.
 
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