Election Over Can The SCAR FRT Be Released?

Deckard said:
Our angle should center on procedural fairness, procedural justice, natural justice, due process. Look up these terms and discuss. By any stretch of the imagination, we have none of it.
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Absolutely! It is grossly improper to use a public office to advance a personal or group interest. Follow and enforce the laws currently in place. There is no excuse for such abuse and delays.
 
proflui said:
Do you know how to contact that "FRT guy"?
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Yes I have all his contact info from my friends dealings with him when he was in Ottawa; Mr. William Etter (the FRT guy)

If a place like Questar or Wolverine or someone is interested I can IM them the details, im not exactly sure if posting it all up would be a good idea, bombarding him with calls will make him do even less work on registering guns, as opposed to a few calls from big players (MP's or big businesses)
 
im not exactly sure if posting it all up would be a good idea
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In this situation I understand your point
However on a larger scale I think this says alot about how some GOV institutions are not approachable.
What's the big deal about getting a firearm classified?
It's not a machine gun?
What can't the "average joe" call and inquire about something
as simple as this?
 
mildot said:
In this situation I understand your point
However on a larger scale I think this says alot about how some GOV institutions are not approachable.
What's the big deal about getting a firearm classified?
It's not a machine gun?
What can't the "average joe" call and inquire about something
as simple as this?
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I absolutely agree with you, it took a lot of effort for my friend to get his contact info, for a .22 based off the ruger 10/22 in operation... again, should have taken a week to issue the FRT... its pretty sad how much effort it took JUST to speak with someone in the 'know'

I just want to make sure we dont get so many people emailing him, that he stops responding or limits his email to outgoing only or something. :p
 
F22_RaptoR said:
Yes I have all his contact info from my friends dealings with him when he was in Ottawa; Mr. William Etter (the FRT guy)

If a place like Questar or Wolverine or someone is interested I can IM them the details, im not exactly sure if posting it all up would be a good idea, bombarding him with calls will make him do even less work on registering guns, as opposed to a few calls from big players (MP's or big businesses)
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I've been dealing with Mr. Etter for years and know him quite well. He is not (unfortunately) the "head" of that department's decision process. I believe Murray Smith is his superior and directions come from higher up the 'chain', filter down through Murray to Bill and then throughout that department.

I don't think that bombarding Mr. Etter with phone calls will help us achieve our goal... it will simply take him away from the tasks at hand. If he spends his day returning/answering inquiry/complaint phone calls then he isn't spending his time processing applications and files. If you want to phone or contact anyone then I suspect you would be better to consider contacting his boss. Don't know that it will have any better end results, but I'm guessing it will be less disruptive to pending applications.

I say this only because I have been aware (on numerous occassions) where the work being done by that department came to a halt (literally) while everyone in the department was tasked to help respond to "Ministerial Inquiries" on various "issue" firearms the past year. In order to write a detailed written response all work on other files was halted... this affected our applications several times and in some cases can last for weeks.

Ultimately the complaints are simply passed down the chain. I don't believe that they are swayed at all by the complaints... why would they be? Their view is simply that they are doing "their job" and doing what's been "mandated". Their response will be that if you want time limits then pass legislation to do so... if you want quick decisions then pass legislation that clarifies the areas that are unclear and open to interpretation.

What we have now (frankly) is their response to the criticism's that they took a year or two ago over various previous classifications (G22, T97, etc.) where people complained that stuff had been let into the country and initially registered one way based on no actual examination or evaluation... only to later be examined and re-classified because the items didn't actually meet the criteria as initially classified/registered. Now everything is being examined and evaluated under a fine tooth comb... no quick decisions are being made unless all criteria can be conclusively met... without clear proof that items meet the criteria the files are held pending that conclusion.

That department does not have the manpower to do the job it is now tasked to do... and though I understand it's been authorized to hire more technicians, finding qualified people who want to move to Ottawa and do the job (for the pay being offered) is not as easy as you might think :)

Ultimately, if we want change it is going to have to come from the political side... the government has the power to clarify parts of the act that are causing 90% of the problems... they have the power to set time limits and they have the power to put in place a legal process to challenge or force decisions. Whether this new Conservative government actually has the desire or intention of doing any of those things is (in my opinion) doubtful. They made a "promise" to abolish the LGR but beyond that I have yet to hear anything about reducing firearm restrictions or fixing the Firearms Act. In fact we continue to hear talk (political) about changing magazine laws to make things more restrictive... creating more prohibited firearms from what are now restricted firearms, etc..

I expect that better results would come from complaints made to your MP than to the RCMP... and complaints made about the process of classification, the lack of accountability, lack of recourse, undefined terms (such as "variant"), etc.. In theory our MP's have the power to fix those things and to bring those concerns to both the government and the RCMP. If they contact the RCMP those are the issues you want them to be asking about... and trying to fix. Those are the issues we want the government to be creating new legislation to fix. Better definition (in law) of how a "variant" is to be determined... better clarification of what constitutes a "full auto" or easily converted "full auto" firearm. Right now the only clarification of that is a court ruling that was NOT particularly helpful to us and is now causing huge delays in the classification of new semi-auto firearm designs.

Just my opinions.

Mark
 
Questar said:
I don't think that bombarding Mr. Etter with phone calls will help us achieve our goal... it will simply take him away from the tasks at hand.
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Yeah, while I'm sure plenty of people here have more experience dealing with this process than me, I have my doubts that the source of the problem is coming from the lab level. If there's any political influence on the amount of time it's taking, I'd think it's more likely coming from the top, and being regulated by keeping the department under staffed and over worked.

It's also possible that it's not a direct effort to slow the process down, but is just seen as a low priority by the people at the top, which essentially produces exactly the same effect of an under staffed department trying to do their job and get through a bunch of FRT applications with very limited resources.
 
Well reading through Mark's post one thing that resonates with me is that if you don't learn your history you will be forced to repeat it.

That said this reminds of the time when the local police handled the F.A.C. process and how subjective those decisions were.Once again no consistency across the country. Only when the firearm license came in did we see an objective process with some recourse. So much for the learning curve.

This speaks volumes of why the RCMP should not be involved in certain aspects of civilian processes outside law enforcement, they can't be objective.I understand that the law does not make the process any clearer,however you have to work with what you have and still deliver a decision in a timely manner.A couple of years to get a classification is absurd IMO.The Federal court has a better track record for timely decisions than the RCMP for christ sake.
 
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I say this only because I have been aware (on numerous occassions) where the work being done by that department came to a halt (literally) while everyone in the department was tasked to help respond to "Ministerial Inquiries" on various "issue" firearms the past year.
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That would make sense only if they had ANY intention of doing their job in the first place. It's like gas prices - it's always aggravating, but we get to hear that Saddam, Katrina, Libya, etc. is to blame. The bottom line is there is a well-concieved plan to keep prices high no...matter...what, and there is no will to hasten classifications either.
 
Deckard said:
That would make sense only if they had ANY intention of doing their job in the first place. It's like gas prices - it's always aggravating, but we get to hear that Saddam, Katrina, Libya, etc. is to blame. The bottom line is there is a well-concieved plan to keep prices high no...matter...what, and there is no will to hasten classifications either.
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I know some of the people in that department... some of them are gun owners and very much personally in favour of shooters' rights. They do however have to follow the guidelines given to them and those guidelines come from above.

I think the members of that department who do the work are very much engaged in doing so... but others outside their department are guilty of either re-directing efforts, re-assigning priorities and in some cases outright delaying decisions.

As an example: The rulings made by that department (last year) with respect to the .22lr rimfire "pistol/rifle/dual purpose" magazines was made mid-summer... yet it was held up for review for months before being released to us... and then held up for many more months before being generally released to CFO's, CBSA and BFL holders. That delay was NOT the fault of the RCMP department that made the ruling... blame that on others higher up the food chain. And only recently did the ruling actually get released onto the CFC/RCMP firearms website for general public notification.

Mark
 
I did try to contact some MP. But they are not helpful enough. Some said because I was not living in their riding they would not help. One promised to look into it but seems doing nothing at all. Some did not even reply me. I do not mind to contact any MP at all, but I do not know which one is really willing to help.
 
Well time for my weekly musing about the SCAR.I find that sometimes this is
cathartic for me?

With that in mind, after talking to Questar about the SCAR process, it seems to me that there is no recourse to administer any kind of accountaility to the RCMP. They have suggested that they need info from FNH, and that this info may be proprietry?
What if FNH says it has to check with DOD?
If thats the case, then what if the RCMP says its waiting on the DOD, this could take years? or they simply say they aren't ready, and set it side for a indefinite period?

So years could pass and no classification? Is that possible?
Can Questar recall the rifle?

At some point can a business like Questar ask? What happend to the SCAR I sent a couple of years ago? and if the RCMP answer, well we are working on it, waiting for information from FNH, check back in another year? Anything else? Is that realsitc? possible?

So does it take an MP to call the RCMP and ask? Would that work?

Sounds to me, like as a gun owner the system has failed, so much for a country that
boasts a level playing field for everyone , seems to me I've been maginalized, and didn't even know it.

Don't I feel like an orphan in my own country today :(
 
In case you have not figured out, most of the bureacratic processes has no time limit, unless the delivery timing of the outcome is stipulated in legislation. If the firearms act stipulates that RCMP must make a decision with in so man days, then yes.

We need to push for is a time limit for the completion of these processes - the issue of FRT, the issue of ATT, the issue of PAL - these timing can be included in the legislation, and then the bureacracy must comply. It is time to get the problem fixed - along with the removal of the LGR.

Now, they can set a time - but it is like customer service query. There is nothing you can do about it - well you can put the bag back on the shelf and leave. Unfortunately.
 
I try to contract to contact my new MP in Scarborough but her assistant told me that it will take about a month for her to set up her office. What I am planning is I will bombard my new MP next month until she does something.

I have also contact Mr. Etter. You can get his info very easily if you look at Questar web site looking for the letter from RCMP about that LAR mag. It is him who issue the letter. I have both sent email and left phone messages to him but so far I did not get any reply. Yesterday I tried to call again but his mail box is full already so I assume he is not in his office currently. But I will continue to contact him. I know that he is not in the senior position but I think I do need to bug someone until something happen.

Questar last time mention Murray Smith is Etter's supervisor but I am not able to find his information online. If it is possible please give me his info also. I will start to contact him. Or by that time I will ask my Scarborough new MP to contact him directly. Actually I do not mind to speak directly to the top guy who handle this issue. What I just need is his info. I know they do not need to set any deadline. So I will just do the dirty work and bug them once in a while until they do something. I actually want them to feel I am bugging them.
 
Sorry guys but the folks at the RCMP lab can't hear you over the sound of their milling machines making a new full auto receiver and parts so they can declare it a prohib due to "ease of conversion".

Just kidding. (Sort of.) Hopefully this thing shows up soon, and x2 to Greentips comment. I always have the feeling that anytime someone with nothing at stake has all the time in the world... well.. that's what they'll take. It's not like they're a private business where time is money.. Well, it is I guess. Just works backwards for public sector. More time is more money in their pockets. I wish I could work like that.
 
Well, you won't hear it from them, but thanks for your service mildot.
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Thanks, I work in the GOV and one thing that I consider important is accountability and doing a good job for the taxpayer. Must have been from the time I spent in the army.
All I can say is that I'm disgusted in the performance of this process.
 
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