Factory Savage wins big shoot!

ok... here is the thing, Mr. P...
I don't know much about BR... I am a rimfire, sporter type of guy these days...
But all the pics I see of BR look like this:
BR2007-f.jpg

Now... MP says that:
1) he hasn't done BR in a while, and didn''t do a huge amount when he did
2) BR shooters tend to rely on flags and that sort of thing

You say that they don't.

Thanks.

Actually MP says he never shot BR, and the inference is BR shooters can't read the wind because we use flags. ?????

Don't misquote me, here is what I said:

"Jerry, your knowledge on the topic of BR shooting is low.

You think it is all about the equipment. It is not. Not even close.

Almost the entire game is about wind reading. The rifle, the rest, the flags etc, only gets you on the playing field. The rifle can't win the match on its own. This should appeal to you, it is a "drivers" game as you like to refer to aimed fire contests.

You have 7 minutes to form a 5 shot group. This could entail a single aiming point or 5 different aiming points depending on the conditions. You may have to repeatedly fire on the sighter target in these 7 minutes to gauge the changing conditions. Then you will often have to aim outside the group in the hopes you read the condition correctly and have the wind push the bullet back into the group. Some people will consume 5-10 sighter shots while forming a single 5 shot group. All in 7 minutes.

I urge you to learn first hand what BR about. It isn't what you think it is."

I try and explain that shooting a group in a BR match entails significant wind reading skills, and the world goes mad!
 
As someone who essentially does not post in this forum and does no long-range shooting at all, and only owns semi-auto rifles, I am pretty sure I don't qualify as a member of the "cult."

Reading Jerry's posts though I note that he does not imply that BR shooters can't read wind...but that they read it through its effects on the flags which are present at BR shoots.

So in fact he has not said that you can't read wind because you use flags, but that the flags are the primary tool used to read the wind, and that without the flags the BR do not have the advantage they ordinarily would.
 
what is my post count now

HI I shot in the us of a last weekend and at the end of the first day I was 2nd to the guy who finished tied for 2 at the us nationals nbrsa last fall in the 3 gun 100 and 200 yard national Br championships with aobut 200 competitors.

We do not post much here because you folks do not want to here anything that may not be composed of a billford group of 3 shots

adams lake rifle barrels will not get any BR barrels from the Br crowd with his posts.

flame away, I prefer to beat up people in matches.

Rick has been helpful to many over the last 10 years and knows a thing or 2.

it does seem more like a cult than a dialogue on procedures or tactics.

Just like you seem to shy away from Br matches we shy away from idiots.

those who know me know I speak bluntly. and truthfully.

I only post to piss some of you off. You cannot take the fact that some of us like to pursue a little more accuracy than whalling away without flags.

a lot of misinformation and yes some from MP but you are not grown up enough to understand any explanation except


I know him

he has more posts

what a bunch of bull ####

we help many on hours of phone calls but perhaps I should ask if they are a member of nutty gun of canada and if they are, see ya

Jefferson:dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:
 
If there were flags, sighters and all the normal aids, these boys might not have done so well because the 'better' gear/shooters would have had the assistance to maximize their performance.

Most BR shooters can't do that well because they have become so dependent on aids. Jerry

Read it again if you like. Still bunk.
 
Wow.

Very mature and constructive.

Can't wait to try benchrest. :p

My two weird sons and I will be shooting F class and TR this summer because we were encouraged and helped by weird nutty gun folks on this site.

We will learn tons, burn a bunch of powder, get stomped hard, and have lots of laughs and cold beer, happily, far away from you.

Good luck in your coming shooting season.

V7
 
LOL. this is pretty funny. Sure doesn't make me want to rush out and join a BR. comp though.

they way I see it and I don't shoot at all yet, someone who practices without flags is going to have the advantage when there not present ie. gopher at 800 yards over terrain. Put that same guy/gun on a soccer field\golf course with flags, ya then the BR shooter has got him, he's going to screw up looking at all the damn flags and flat terrain (maybe there terrain in a BR shoot I don't know #### all about it, nor do I care to now, as I could golf if I want to shoot at a flag).

all in all I'm just giving my opinion as an outsider who doesn't really know ethier, but yes the one who is actively trying to help someone is going to get more respect.
 
It is unfortunate that these threads always turn into a mess exactly like this one.

This was posted
Rpollock; with a post count like yours, what have you contributed to this forum?

It was replied to with this
It is also not about post count. Good grief.

But there is also this thrown in there too.
Just in case this is a serious question, the answer is they have stepped in. Lots of very experienced shooters have dropped in here over the years.... and left. People who have been doing this for 10-20-30 years, or more, who have competed and experimented extensively in various precision shooting disciplines. People who have literally fired thousands and thousands of rounds annually looking for the ultimate in precision.
Based on these last few threads do you really wonder why they don't contribute?

It is the last sentence that brings me to this.

I know who you are and about your skill Rick, if you feel someone is incorrect post your argument to counter their view. You are absolutely right about the fact that alot of competitive marksmen have been here and have left. The problem is that they came, they lurked, something made them mad, they made a slanderous or derogatory comment at someone instead of countering the point and were never to be heard from again. All of this with a post count of under 100 and having been a member for 4-5 years. You guys are already here lurking and have knowledge, use it to educate not slander.
 
Actually MP says he never shot BR,

mysticplayer said:
rpollock, I know you don't believe this but I know quite a bit about SR BR as that is where I started my centerfire 'career'. Never competed but learnt alot over the years.

and the inference is BR shooters can't read the wind because we use flags. ?????

Don't misquote me, here is what I said:

"Jerry, your knowledge on the topic of BR shooting is low.
You think it is all about the equipment. It is not. Not even close.

I think the question, or allegation, or whatever, is not that BR shooters can't read the wind, its that they can't read the wind without flags.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that they can read the wind, but not to the level required to produce competitive BR groups?

I really don't know any of you guys, and like I said, I don't shoot either of your disciplines. I thought I would like to try. But here is the thing... MP may be wrong (I don't know) but at least he is polite and helpful.

and Jefferson? yeah... a real ambassador...

I KNOW this is the net, and people get dumb... anonymity leads to #######s... but for a sport as spread out as shooting, it is sometimes the only way to make contact. Keep on deterring interested parties, and your sport will be dead in a decade.
 
I urge you to learn first hand what BR about. It isn't what you think it is."

I try and explain that shooting a group in a BR match entails significant wind reading skills, and the world goes mad!

You just don't seem to get it, or you don't care. The attitude you have been displaying on this post may well turn people off from even looking at benchrest shooting. You are damaging your own sport. Personally I don't see anything wrong with flags, and a few sighters once in awhile would be nice. In fact, I could have used a few of both today:). But there are two things that really matter in shooting and one is what kind of representative a person is for the sport, i.e. what kind of sportsman they are. Frankly, I'm starting to think you just enjoy pi..ing people off, calling them down or purposely misunderstanding them. There is no sincerity in that and no real knowledge. In the old politically incorrect days we called it sh*t distu*bing. Waste of time really...my $0.02. I believe people are at their most dangerous when they start to think they know something. Come to think of it where is the Benchrest Thread on this site? I understand alot of BR shooters have passed through. Great contribution guys... Very surprise that one has to read wind in benchrest shooting too...would never have thunk it...:redface:
 
I'd rather spend my time learning how to read mirage, off my harrises thank you. But I've talked to some nice BR people(a match was going on at the range next to the one I was shooting on) and Mystic player was nice enough to share some load data I asked about, as well as give out his share of personal experiences to those of us who visit this site.

Now to the point, I own both Savage as well as Remington varmint/tactical/target rifles and I have a hard time deciding on which ones I take to the range on any given trip. My primary varmint rifle though is a Savage. That being said my primary hunting rifle is a Reminton, or is it the marlin?
 
Wow, I don't shoot benchrest, or anything like it, and I don't think I will, the guys shooting AR's are a little easier on the newbies and some of them are in Baghdad :eek: (literally)
 
Jerry has misinformed you

yes he is a good guy and quite helpful.

He knows lots about non-windflag reading of conditions, much more so than I.

He has posted lots and spent lots of time behind the keyboard.

He can hit targets far far away.

But he said he never competed. (post 18 for those who wish to check)

and here is where the misinformation started.

quote the mega dollar optics end quote

I guess the summerland folks who use nesika actions expensive leo or nightforce scopes dont count. (I was not there just think some custom actions and costly scopes were there)

GUESS WHAT A $400 WEAVER 36X WAS ON THE GUN WHICH FINISHED 14TH AT 200 YARDS 5 10 SHOT GROUPS IN THE WIND IN OHIO. out of about 180 shooters from around the world 26 or so countries this at the world benchrest championship OK

I know because it was my gun and I was steering it.

so to say MEGA DOLLAR SCOPES IS MISLEADING, there are weaver scopes used by about 50 per cent of competitive BR short range shooters in north america.

gee Jerry likes savage inexpensive

I like weaver inexpensive

the ability to enjoy ones hobby and try not to provide a bias or misleading info as the saying goes priceless.

But you non-br shooters jump all over someone because they have only posted a few times. perhaps they hold some records, mmmmmm
maybe my 8 provincial records and

finishing 4th in the world team event in vienna austria means nothing to those of you who count posts for a living,

it is nice for jerry to help folks get on target at 800 yards or so

Jerry I would like to meet you someday

BUT GUESS WHAT DO NOT PROFESS TO KNOW THE SPORT IF YOU HAVE NEVER COMPETED

do not think we are (place adjectives here )

we may actually know something but you all think you know better

please shoot 5 5 shot groups with your guns at 200 or 300 yards

start the groups evry half hour precisely on the half hour

get them measured by someone who knows how to measure them

YOU WILL BE HUMBLED

We do not know or are experts at whatever , we just try to enjoy our hobby

problem is

if you do not understand it or just take shots at us because you cannot do it

THEN IS IT ANY WONDER WE DO NOT POST

I spend almost all of my disposable income either shooting

travelling to a shoot

or helping others on the phone at my long distance cost

for what, people who cannot try to get answers to questions or have to defend a good guy when he might be wrong.

I buy different guns or get them made because they look nice or fancy,

I only became a good shooter because I practised.

the bullets cost only a little more than speer or other brands, do berger 68 grain 6mm per hundred cost more than your 105 grain bergers (if they make a 105)

our sport is not that much more costly

PEOPLE JUST SAY SO CAUSE THEY CANT COMPETE OR HAVE TRIED IT AND FAILED

so they #####

but in fairness an ambulance is needed or at least probable than at the 400 run and belly shoot matches and for that i am grateful

you made me laugh

but seriously

we would like to debate stuff but get #### upon for no reason

we COMPETE not sit on the sidelines or have a 2 shot group in our wallet.

we are interested in the same things

shooting, accuracy when we can get it , and fun with those who share our interests.

I liked the colorful guns and stayed for the accuracy. i know squat about reloading until I tried BR

I did not neck turn cases but bought 200 already done when I started.

BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU GET OLDER YOU MAY WANT TO TRY BR

then you might become one of us.

and to that fellow who did not want to meet rick at a shoot, do not worry

you will never travel to alberta to a br match and rick travels to the us of a to shoot

anyway i will not try to repair any damage cause I still think most of you do not want to hear from the

non-flock of sheep

I expect Jerry may let his servants answer for him

but truthfully Jerry is a credit to the sport but I disagree with some of his statements.

(there is that better, those that know me know we are a helpful lot if given a chance)

I too disliked some of the old guys who thought they knew everything.

someday I will travel to summerland. I pulled targets for the 600 yard guys a couple of days before the east west shootout in st loius last year.

It was not for me but it was fun

bybybybybbybybyby :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

Jefferson poorly chosen canadian rep for the world Br federation
and world team member 3 times
 
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- I guess the summerland folks who use nesika actions expensive leo or nightforce scopes dont count.

- get them measured by someone who knows how to measure them

- YOU WILL BE HUMBLED

- you do not understand it...you cannot do it

- people who cannot try to get answers to questions...

- PEOPLE JUST SAY SO CAUSE THEY CANT COMPETE OR HAVE TRIED IT AND FAILED so they #####

- we COMPETE not sit on the sidelines or have a 2 shot group in our wallet.

- i know squat about reloading until I tried BR

- BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU GET OLDER YOU MAY WANT TO TRY BR
then you might become one of us.

- you will never travel to alberta to a br match and rick travels to the us of a to shoot

- I still think most of you do not want to hear from the non-flock of sheep

- I expect Jerry may let his servants answer for him

- I too disliked some of the old guys who thought they knew everything.

Jefferson poorly chosen canadian rep for the world Br federation
and world team member 3 times


You're just not getting it either Jefferson. Thanks for the warning about becoming one of you though, I wouldn't want to lose my servant/sheep status, especially being an old guy. Really glad you're out there representing Canada too. I'm sure you're doing as great a job there as you are here.
 
I mentioned post count to point out that Mysticplayer answers peoples questions and gives decent advice. He contributes to the forum. In my mind anyways.

Savage. Hoo ya! ;)


Read the bold type in the quote.

Got it?

Mysticplayer contributes in a friendly and explains in laymans terms so people like say..............me can understand. He helps other people out with their problems with his opinion which has been asked for by the original poster with a problem.

Mysticplayer contributes in a public forum. Thats how these things work. He is a true ambasador for the sport as someone pointed out earlier.

I appoligize to the contributing members of this forum for my part in this thread and I am bowing out.

Why bother.
 
Frick guys

it is time to lighten up.

I will not say more but when I get the chance will possibly start a new thread on my opinion of the members of gunnutz and there opinions of guns.

Savage wins a big shoot so be it.

Go to Benchrest.com or 6mmBR.com and see how many Savages, Remingtons, Wins etc have won major matches. They possibly did 30 years ago. The shoots won in this day and age are aftermarket actions in Shortrange, 1000yard and even F-Class. Yes there may be the rare occasion when a Factory action wins a shoot but that is very rare. It may happen more so here in Canada versus the US that a factory action will win a shoot. Why, because we will spend thousands of dollars trying to make a factory gun shoot competitively. The bottom line it will almost never be competitve. I was one who has done that. I am kind of sorry that I spent the money on my Rem 700. I could have had a second custom rifle for the money in my Rem 700.

Thats the end of my story. Take it or leave it.

Honestly, it is lock down time.
 
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