First Dealings With Tikka T3......Very Unimpressed
- Thread starter c-fbmi
- Start date
Gentlemen........I posted this thread to let y'all know what I observed with my first go around with a Tikka rifle. Whether or not this is the norm, I cannot say as I stated many times that this is the first Tikka I have had anything to do with. Whether or not Tikka has a proprietary throating system is completely irrelevant to this thread. I have encountered many rifles whose throat was longer than the magazine would allow one to seat bullets to snuggle up to the rifling.........most Mark Vs are like this, and they can usually be made to shoot acceptably for hunting purposes. As I also said I'll reserve my judgment as to accuracy, until I have run several racks of test loads........at this point I have only tried one bullet and one powder, which only tells me that it doesn't like that combo and does not necessarily speak to the accuracy potential of this rifle. I will post further development as it happens and we'll see where it goes from here.
To those of you who are drinking the Tikka Kool-aid regarding some kind of extra special throat system, good luck. Long throats and varying angles of engagement to the rifling has been around since the 40s, it is nothing new or proprietary and if it held any accuracy secrets the benchrest boys would be all over it. Accuracy comes from using quality actions and barrels and gunsmithing which is of the highest quality and attention to detail. Then using good components and loads put together with the same attention to detail. It is just this simple and there are no new tricks. Gentlemen you are allowing yourselves to be baffled by BS...........
To those of you who are drinking the Tikka Kool-aid regarding some kind of extra special throat system, good luck. Long throats and varying angles of engagement to the rifling has been around since the 40s, it is nothing new or proprietary and if it held any accuracy secrets the benchrest boys would be all over it. Accuracy comes from using quality actions and barrels and gunsmithing which is of the highest quality and attention to detail. Then using good components and loads put together with the same attention to detail. It is just this simple and there are no new tricks. Gentlemen you are allowing yourselves to be baffled by BS...........
SAAMI chamber/cartridge specs are NOT the same as CIP.
Made in US = SAAMI dimensions.
Made in Finland = CIP dimensions.
For instance, not one Tikka or SAKO rifle in our club will fully chamber a 5.56x45 NATO cartridge.
tac
Made in US = SAAMI dimensions.
Made in Finland = CIP dimensions.
For instance, not one Tikka or SAKO rifle in our club will fully chamber a 5.56x45 NATO cartridge.
tac
I can, but I'll not bother as again it is irrelevant. The magazine limits the COAL..........that's all I need to know. I'm not redesigning this rifle for my neighbor...........I'm just trying to get a load for him that works in this gun.
This rifle does not have a longish freebore...........what it has is a SAAMI minimum magazine. I'm quite sure that I am capable of finding an adequate load for this rifle assuming it will shoot something accurately. It just doesn't seem to be within your grasp, that after 45 years of reloading, experimenting, cartridge design and building rifles, that I may in fact know as much and possibly even more than your computer program. Your computer will tell me absolutely nothing that I cannot ascertain on my own by loading and shooting, the same way I've been doing it for 45 years, and my experience tells me which will be the best powders to work with for a given bore and case capacity. I don't need a computer for this either.
If I were actually in need of reloading advice I call people like Why Not? (Ted Wagner) or Eagleye or several other friends that I know have as much or more loading experience as myself and who have likely run into the problem I may be facing. Likewise if I have a bullet problem I would call someone like Marshal who actually manufactured bullets for years, or the techs at Nosler, Sierra etc. Gun problems I would call on friends like Dennis Sorensen (Guntech) who has been a full time gunsmith for more than 50 years, and a competitive benchrest shooter for many of those years.
The point being BCBRAD, that if and when I seek advice I shall seek it from those who have "been there and done that" and not from a computer program/whiz.
If I were actually in need of reloading advice I call people like Why Not? (Ted Wagner) or Eagleye or several other friends that I know have as much or more loading experience as myself and who have likely run into the problem I may be facing. Likewise if I have a bullet problem I would call someone like Marshal who actually manufactured bullets for years, or the techs at Nosler, Sierra etc. Gun problems I would call on friends like Dennis Sorensen (Guntech) who has been a full time gunsmith for more than 50 years, and a competitive benchrest shooter for many of those years.
The point being BCBRAD, that if and when I seek advice I shall seek it from those who have "been there and done that" and not from a computer program/whiz.
I'm not a Tikka hater but I will agree the mags do limit C.O.A.L. The chambers also caused me grief due to tight headspace and the bolts not closing when all other rifles in same caliber do. I have found them to be accurate but very finicky to load for. Also I have heard of cold weather fail to fires from friends but never experienced it myself. I own zero Tikka rifles but have lots of vanguards, 700's, and a/X-bolt.
You sure are knowledgable,
That's very nice of you to notice and say so..........Thank You.........
ps.......knowledgeable is spelled like this..........
I have had Tikka s in the 55-65 series, the 595-695 series and the T3 Each new model was a diffinite step down in Quality. While all were reasonably accurate they would not match my remingtons. In particular the t3 wanted to reduce weight so they went with a more enclosed ejection ort so they could stiffen the action by making the walls slimmer. and then they adopted the ridiculous recoil lug. I believe the recoil lug on the earlier Tikkas and some of the sakos were an excellent design one. I believe the problem with cold weather firing is the weight of the stricker couldn't believe this was adopted for the Rangers. All of the reliable military rifles have a heavy striker and rely on the weight or momentum to fire the primer.
Nedless to say I no longer own any Tikkas.
Nedless to say I no longer own any Tikkas.
I have 4 different tools to measure this, and 3 of them are from sinclair...........they all give me a different measurement so one persons measurement to the ogive could be way different then someone elses...........2 of us bought 7mm sinclair inserts so we can compare notes on the phone, found out we are measuring 32 thou different on the same case in a face to face meeting so there goes that awesome theory
Don't know how you and friend did the measuring.
I load a bullet in a lightly sized case, chamber (bolt action) measure cartridge base to ogive, do it a few times to ascertain the length.....done! Get the same measurement time after time. But, also check every 500 or so rounds to track erosion.
So your not big on unsolicited inputs. This will make it more difficult to get the point across.
In short, I have done the handloading thing for 34 years in the same manner y'all do it. This has provided me with an additional hobby to the shooting sports. A few years ago I decided to shoot long range, equipped myself with entry level rifle/scope for the task of nailing X rings at 1000 yards. Boy, did I suck at this.....but what really sucked was my handloads which for decades I thought were pretty good.
As with any problem, whether in life or vocation (Vibration Analysis), I needed to educate then measure the result. This is how I approach the issue of producing better handloads.
This includes all the 'tricks' for brass prep from neck lubricity to primer pocket depths, accurate measurement of powder down to 0.02 +/0 grains, checking concentricity of the loaded cartridge and keeping an open mind to what tools or procedures work. Lee tools can be a nice surprise when the results are measured, these are the 'mechanics'.
The velocity of the bullet is the 'grail' with out an accurate velocity reading nothing works as well as it can. With that velocity a computer program such as QL works. It will give you a barrel time in mS, it will show you what powders work (it will tell you, the lot to lot difference in burn rate, it allows you to adjust this, if your powder choice is too slow or fast for the components your using, this will have a direct influence on ES/a sign that you are at or near OCW, given that your case prep is impeccable), it will show you what powders are better for arresting barrel erosion.
All of what I have posted does not negate years of practical experience........the practical experience goes hand in hand with what I describe, can not figure why an experienced handloader/shooter wouldn't be all over this.
the tools themselves are different, the openings in the comparator inserts vary from insert to insert giving a different measurement of the same round. using the same toll we get the same measurement, swapping tools we get a new measurement of the same round in question
^^^
I see, sketchy QC? Normally found that making a dummy round that is a 'jam' fit for the chamber/rifling , then taking measurements from there seems to streamline the process. Only works for a particular bullet and specific to one rifle, good way to track erosion as well.
Really like those Tikka 'springs'
I see, sketchy QC? Normally found that making a dummy round that is a 'jam' fit for the chamber/rifling , then taking measurements from there seems to streamline the process. Only works for a particular bullet and specific to one rifle, good way to track erosion as well.
Really like those Tikka 'springs'
^^^
I see, sketchy QC? Normally found that making a dummy round that is a 'jam' fit for the chamber/rifling , then taking measurements from there seems to streamline the process. Only works for a particular bullet and specific to one rifle, good way to track erosion as well.
Really like those Tikka 'springs'
I see, sketchy QC? Normally found that making a dummy round that is a 'jam' fit for the chamber/rifling , then taking measurements from there seems to streamline the process. Only works for a particular bullet and specific to one rifle, good way to track erosion as well.
Really like those Tikka 'springs'
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You sure are knowledgable, and arrogant to say the least! Do they respond as you do when giving or recieving input? Yeeesh, get over yourself.
You know, Douglas has probably forgotten more than you will ever know about firearms and reloading, so I would be cautious about such Comments. Eagleye.
