First nations man claims charter right to trade eagle parts

yyyyy said:
Well....

I am expecting some hypocrisy to storm in here soon as people start start calling out the natives for claiming a right to hunt/sell/eat, when people here feel it is their right as well.... regardless of what the science or reports say, to hunt for sport or food...

;)
Click to expand...
I can't see why any reason why it would be a right to hunt for sport except in the case of small game or herds that are wholly contained on your private property (i.e. don't tell me you have the right to slaughter that herd of caribou just because they are passing through your property), in which case it would have nothing to do with hunting and just be a matter of property rights. Subsistence hunting on Crown lands would be a different matter entirely, of course.
 
Understanding eagles better and better, and thus finding they are one of natures most effective predators, I find them less and less "great" or "sacred".

Watching "You Tube" film clips about eagles hunting mountain sheep Spain, or wolf in Mongolia, and even learning about eagles attacking and killing grown deer in British Columbia, I start to have a different view, or scared of, what eagles actually can do.

Have eagles, on record, ever attacked and killed people ?

From watching the "You Tube" film clip about eagles hunting, I start to believe an eagle can attack and kill man, if it wants to ?

Throughout the history of man, religious and ceremonial killings of animals/humans has been a trade marks of the human culture. Man has always adorned himself with animal feathers/hide.

The ceremonial guard at Parliament Hill and Buckingham Palace bear hat, have caused many tousands of canadian bear to meet their untimely end. This is also trading in bear parts !

I have seen hunting promational DVD's, in which the hunter prayed and thanked his particular God, for harvesting the animal, and act I believe which are repeated in many different religions. Some religions, demand a rabbi/holy man to be present when animals are slaughtered in a slaughter house.

What is perfectly normal in one religion, is very wrong in another. That is why we have religious wars.

One religion, like the Fundamental Mormons, in Bountiful in B.C., allows the bishop, for religious reasons, to have a harem of 22 wifes and 119 children, and still growing, whereas most mainstream religion only allow one wife and 1.84 children :)

Should we allow eagles to be hunted and killed, for religious reasons ?

Should we allow a man to have 22 wife's and 119 children, for religous reason ?

It will be interesting to see how the law of the land is applied in those two, different cases :)
 
What is interesting with harems, is that it appears, and the little i know about harems, that the women gets along better when other women are around ?

Ha'vnt you noticed that women is always nicer, when other women are around, and never nags :)
 
MiG25 said:
different tribes were arguably as different as the scots and the chinese.
Click to expand...


I'm Aboriginal and a FN community member and have never heard anywhere that it's OK to sell traditional medicine stuff just as it's not particularly approved to sell your family members and Eagle is supposed to be family. None of us has to look far to find social problems and people in a bad way.

Please don't jump on the "those dam'n Indians again" bandwagon since we have at least as much concerns with this sort of thing as folks outside the Aboriginal communities.

Help us straighten these things out by measured and thoughtful actions.

Our words have lasting effect.

Thanks you guys.

FM
 
Please don't jump on the "those dam'n Indians again" bandwagon since we have at least as much concerns with this sort of thing as folks outside the Aboriginal communities.
Click to expand...

Then start showing your concern by openly condemning the actions of these people,rather than by helping them fight their cases on the basis of treaty rights as usually happens.If we start seeing open condemnations of these people in the media by other first nations groups,it will go a long ways toward proving your concerns.
 
Hey Stubb,

I just did. We have to start somewhere. Point is the animals need all of us working however we can for protection. We're killing stuff in every way possible, intentionally and unintentionally. We all need to do what we can to stop contributing to loss of wilderness areas and habitat destruction caused mostly by our insatiable need for more dam'n stuff.

I couldn't agree more that the goon shows we hear about make no sense and benefit absolutely no one.

Rest assured I work for First Nations responsibility and wildlife conservation. Quite a few FN communities manage these things with pretty strict compliance. I wish these kinds of stories also made headlines but you and I both know why they never will.

There's a lot of low-grade noise going on in the world and it takes quite a few of us to help change that. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
I wish these kinds of stories also made headlines but you and I both know why they never will.
Click to expand...

There are opportunities for yourself and others to get their message to the media about such things,but usually,the first nations groups instead back the accused in the name of defending treaty rights instead.Most are unwilling to openly condemn their own race regardless of the situation.I have yet to see any first nations group officially condemn any of their own race in the media for subsistence hunting abuses.
 
stubblejumper said:
There are opportunities for yourself and others to get their message to the media about such things,but usually,the first nations groups instead back the accused in the name of defending treaty rights instead.Most are unwilling to openly condemn their own race regardless of the situation.I have yet to see any first nations group officially condemn any of their own race in the media for subsistence hunting abuses.
Click to expand...

How true.
 
In the intrest of keeping this discussion civil, some first nations communities have completely condemned the Eagle Poachers.

For Immediate Release
May 1.2006
Tsleil-Waututh Nation Commend Law Enforcement Officials
For Arrests in Eagle Poaching Case

Tsleil-Waututh Traditional Territory (North Vancouver) - The Tsleil-Waututh Nation is
very pleased that arrests have finally been made in connection with the illegal poaching
of bald eagles on the North Shore. The arrests of the 11 individuals in the case follow a
15 month investigation following the discovery of dumped eagle remains on Tsleil-
Waututh lands in February 2005.
"The desecration of these majestic and sacred birds cast a shadow upon our community.
These arrests will help to bring closure to our community for what has occurred on our
lands", said Leonard George, a Tsleil-Waututh elder. "We have always wanted justice
for the slain eagles. In our historic times, there was always a consequence for criminal
behavior; we have always had laws and justice in our societies. So we are appreciative
for the time and effort spent by law enforcement officials to lay charges in this case".
The Tsleil-Waututh Nation is saddened to hear that some of the accused are First
Nations people. However it must be made clear that none of the individuals arrested
are members of the Tsleil-Waututh Nation.
"The slaying of eagles has nothing to do with First Nations culture and everything to do
with the personal economic gain and profit of the perpetrators", noted Tsleil-Waututh
Nation elder Ernie George.
Tsleil-Waututh Chief Leah George-Wilson said "from the Tsleil-Waututh First Nation
point of view, eagle poaching is a criminal activity. We look forward to a final resolution
in the court system and are hopeful that it will never happen again. Our community stood
in the middle of the storm and held fast to what is right and now justice must be served".
For Further Information, Contact:
Chief Leah D. George-Wilson
Director-Treaty, Land and Resources
Tsleil-Waututh Nation
604.924-4166
Click to expand...

And some have waffled.


2 more eagle poachers sentenced
Sto:lo First Nation wants other cases diverted to aboriginal justice system
Last Updated: Thursday, July 19, 2007 | 10:53 AM PT
CBC News

After two men were sentenced this week in a highly publicized eagle poaching case in North Vancouver, the Sto:lo First Nation is demanding that several band members still facing charges be transferred to its aboriginal justice system.

Police examine eagle remains found on the Burrard First Nation reserve near North Vancouver in 2005.Police examine eagle remains found on the Burrard First Nation reserve near North Vancouver in 2005.
(CBC)

There have been five convictions so far in the alleged poaching ring, after dozens of mutilated eagle carcasses were found on the Burrard First Nation reserve near North Vancouver in 2005.

Those convictions include the two men who were sentenced in provincial court in Surrey on Tuesday. Wesley Francis, who pleaded guilty to two counts of trafficking and killing eagles, was sentenced to 45 days in jail and fined $2,800. Thomas Lawrence Shaw, who pleaded guilty to one count of trafficking, was sentenced to 20 days and fined $1,850.

Ten others still face charges, including several members of the Sto:lo First Nation.

But Sto:lo Nation Grand Chief Clarence Pennier said Wednesday that he doesn't think band members charged with trafficking eagle parts should appear in provincial court. He said that, because eagles are sacred to the band, the band should handle the situation.

He also alleged that those charged were coerced into confessing because police were desperate to charge someone.

"Because it was such a large media event, somebody had to eventually get charged for those kind of things," said Pennier.

For those reasons the cases should be handed over to the Sto:lo justice program where they would be handled through group discussions with elders and other band members, Pennier said.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to make this a cowoys vs indians issue.
 
However it must be made clear that none of the individuals arrested
are members of the Tsleil-Waututh Nation.
Click to expand...

After two men were sentenced this week in a highly publicized eagle poaching case in North Vancouver, the Sto:lo First Nation is demanding that several band members still facing charges be transferred to its aboriginal justice system.
Click to expand...

There is a huge difference between the opinions of the two bands.The band that has no members involved,is condemning the actions of the accused,but the band whose members have been charged,are not supporting the actions taken in charging their band members.I wonder what approach the first band would be taking if it was some of their band members that were charged?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom