FN C1A1 - Prohibited?

I have an Indian one (all I could afford), looked like absolute crap but the bore was good. Sweated over that critter, finally got it rust-free and shooting 1-1/8" groups, used it in a couple of matches at Shilo.

One Saturday, getting ready for the shoot on Sunday. Stopped at the Post Office, picked up the mail. There was a letter from the actual, freely-elected, freedom-supporting Government of Canada (which I was stupid enough to serve, wasting a couple of years of my life), telling me that my FAL was now a 'terrorist weapon' and so I would no longer be allowed to shoot it. My match rifle. Useless.
I didn't shoot the match the next day.
And I haven't shot a match since.

My friends don't understand why, if we're in the States, I go into a black depression as we get close to the Border, coming home. I feel like I'm going back into a prison.

Fellow a while back said we can still dream.

"Da, Tovarishchi, is free country. Still can dream.... until Government makes new law!"

Whatever happened to the ancient legal principle that you must commit a crime before you are punished?
 
smellie said:
I have an Indian one (all I could afford), looked like absolute crap but the bore was good. Sweated over that critter, finally got it rust-free and shooting 1-1/8" groups, used it in a couple of matches at Shilo.

One Saturday, getting ready for the shoot on Sunday. Stopped at the Post Office, picked up the mail. There was a letter from the actual, freely-elected, freedom-supporting Government of Canada (which I was stupid enough to serve, wasting a couple of years of my life), telling me that my FAL was now a 'terrorist weapon' and so I would no longer be allowed to shoot it. My match rifle. Useless.
I didn't shoot the match the next day.
And I haven't shot a match since.

My friends don't understand why, if we're in the States, I go into a black depression as we get close to the Border, coming home. I feel like I'm going back into a prison.

Fellow a while back said we can still dream.

"Da, Tovarishchi, is free country. Still can dream.... until Government makes new law!"

Whatever happened to the ancient legal principle that you must commit a crime before you are punished?
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all us 12(3)s got that same letter- that's what happens when you follow the "letter of the law" and jump through all the hoops properly- this step was the first in the "justification" to confiscation of said weapon- ie, you CAN'T shoot it anymore , so you can't use it , so we'll take it- there was a "rumored " provision in c-68( i never actually saw it) that UNLESS YOU SHOT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TIMES AND COULD PROVE IT( IE signed in at the range or used your range card) they had the RIGHT to confiscate your restricteds as they saw fit- when that didn't work, ( too much of an uproar) this thing came out- if the liberals get back in, one of the first things the cfos will do is come after all the 12(3)S ON THAT BASIS
 
UNLESS YOU SHOT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TIMES AND COULD PROVE IT( IE signed in at the range or used your range card) they had the RIGHT to confiscate your restricteds as they saw fit-
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Now that has been law de facto on this side of the pond as long as I have held an FAC. They claim if you havent good reason and can prove it, i.e. range records or bookings for stalking then you wont get that firearm back on your license at renewal, another reason for me to drop the UKNRA as they supported this good reason clause.
 
well, it didn't fly over here- it was buried fairly deep in the act, so they thought they could "sneak " it through= the idea was to make it so cunbersome and inconvient to own a firearm that MOST people would give up or youd have to be active member of a shooting club to own one
 
Hey, maybe we can get the Commies to make up a batch, sell them to us.

Gummint will do ANYTHING to keep the Commies happy, always have (remember the Great Khrushchev Famine?). And Mother Russia isn't Commie any more, but our wonderful good friends the Chinese are.... and it is VERY politically-correct to support anything that the wonderful Chinese government might do. (We'll just look the other way at shooting students and selling the hearts of living people and a few other little things..... after all, if we give them enough money, they might be nicer).

Who knows? In THIS world, it just might work!

LOL!
 
Depression's over.

Sorry about that last one, guys.

Go to a law library and look up the statutes of King Richard III. He only had one Parliament (1483) before he was killed (murdered?), so it isn't hard to find. What you are looking for is Cap. iii, which is the foundation of our absolute RIGHT of bail.

Keep reading, VERY carefully.

Any Magistrate or Bailiff or Sheriff or whatever who 'confiscates' or otherwise takes away YOUR PROPERTY, without you FIRST being 'attainted' (convicted) of an actual CRIME, is PERSONALLY liable to replace your property DOUBLED, and, as well, is permanently removed from the King's service.

That law was passed by Parliament in 1483 at the personal order of King Richard III; he wrote it himself. It amounts to a Royal Gift, just like Magna Charta.... and a Royal Gift cannot be rescinded by any politician.

There are a LOT of old laws we can look to: the Assize of Arms (1181) is definitely another. I happen to know where there are 4,000 copies of that one.... and it is REALLY interesting.

What we NEED is a lawyer who is willing to take these things into a courtroom and point out the difference between Free Men and slaves.

The difference is very clear: Free Men MUST own weapons; slaves must NOT.

Are YOU a Free Man... or a slave?
 
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paulz said:
Mine is ex-O.P.P.

DSC06098_edited.jpg
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I made this my desktop wallpaper. That is one beautiful rig. What is the year of manufacture?
 
Definitely brings back memories. Even the BFA. Had them pop off sometimes if they weren't wired down. And the most fun was using something to shim the safety sear down.
 
Obtunded said:
I made this my desktop wallpaper. That is one beautiful rig. What is the year of manufacture?
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1968.

It is an 8L###x serial number. So it has the C2 front sight block and the modified ejector block. Originally these were going to be designated C2A2. Thsi rifle was stamped with "O.P.P", probably from the factory, and this was carefully scratched out when it was surplussed.

I don't know when the O.P.P bought it, but it was obviously carried more than fired. The RCMP bought C1s also, but only for shooting in competition, perhaps the OPP did as well. The only time I have ever seen one carried by an OPP member was at a remeberance day parade.
 
We have the same IDIOTS here. OOH its got a safety sear! ya can make a machine gun outen it!:eek:

EXCEPT the L1A1/C1A1 was NEVER full auto. The M1 Garand has a safety sear, The SKS has a safety sear, but the same part on a SLR is EVUUL:mad:

All the safety sear does is keep the rifle from firing until the bolt is locked.
 
"John Sukey" ... You are a little off base in asserting the L1A1 was never full auto. Basically the Canadian Navy had the same rifle on Issue that had the selector installed ( and another modification) that did allow F/A fire. Granted the standard issue L1A1 was not intended by those issuing the rifles, for Auto Fire, with good reasons. BUT the Lower receiver on all the ones I've seen do have the three position marking for safety, semi and AUTO. The original FALs were definitely initially issued with F/A capability, how controllable is a moot point, and how long before the Plastic Furniture melted and what barrel life could be expected is open to question. .... The key part for the F/A capability was the Installation/retention of the SAFETY SEAR. The slot for which it "dropped in" could have easily been welded up, and therefore eliminating any possibility of an "easy conversion". ...... To my knowledge if not the the first, very close to it, where this issue came up, and I was in Court part of the time, was back in 1978 or 79(?) Burnaby, Provincial Court, Judge Groberman. An Importer/Distributor and the name escapes me, was messing around in his backyard with FALs and fired a number of rounds F/A in a densely Urban, Townhouse Complex. ...... David K
 
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Quote Mudgunner49: "My basic was in 1981 and my FNC1 was 7L1978... "

'85, and 6L2495 for me. From the same lock-up in the old Regt. Adm office, as I recall?


David K., & John Sukey: yes & no.
The CF did issue a C1-type rifle with full-auto capability; the C1D & C1A1D series. It was for naval use, and other than the C2-type selector it also had the short C2-type trigger-spring plunger (to allow full trigger depression with the auto cut-out on the selector), and was marked with a large red-paint filled "A" cut into the buttstock to indicate automatic capability.
They were fairly accurate in short bursts only when compared to say, a full-auto M-14, but it's clear why the C2 was made heavy! They were fun with C2 mags standing, but not too useful at 100m or beyond.

As far as why they are Prohibited, a political reason makes more sense than a technical one. The first L1A1 (Aussie) I bought back in the Restricted days had the safety-sear removed, the safety-sear tripping projection on the breech-block carrier ground off, and therefore required either parts replacement and/or metal added to be able to fire auto. Meaning: there were/are several others easier to convert that aren't Prohibited.
My Aussie ones, the Brit, and all remaining Canadian ones now sit in a cold dark cabinet, only taken out for occasional cleaning over a cold pint, and tape of The Wild Geese, or The Odd Angry Shot.
 
David K said:
snip.... BUT the Lower receiver on all the ones I've seen do have the three position marking for safety, semi and AUTO. snip ...... David K
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This is incorrect. While the C1/L1 lowers DO have the F/A detent, they are NOT marked as such.

According to the book, this was because the "Rifle Steering Committee" did not want a "Full Auto" rifle for general issue.

The trials Ex & X8 rifles convinced them that a "full auto" service rifle was a very bad idea in (what became) 7.62 NATO
 
smoothbore75 said:
Quote Mudgunner49: "My basic was in 1981 and my FNC1 was 7L1978... "

'85, and 6L2495 for me. From the same lock-up in the old Regt. Adm office, as I recall?

David K., & John Sukey: yes & no.
The CF did issue a C1-type rifle with full-auto capability; the C1D & C1A1D series. It was for naval use, and other than the C2-type selector it also had the short C2-type trigger-spring plunger (to allow full trigger depression with the auto cut-out on the selector), and was marked with a large red-paint filled "A" cut into the buttstock to indicate automatic capability.
They were fairly accurate in short bursts only when compared to say, a full-auto M-14, but it's clear why the C2 was made heavy! They were fun with C2 mags standing, but not too useful at 100m or beyond.

As far as why they are Prohibited, a political reason makes more sense than a technical one. The first L1A1 (Aussie) I bought back in the Restricted days had the safety-sear removed, the safety-sear tripping projection on the breech-block carrier ground off, and therefore required either parts replacement and/or metal added to be able to fire auto. Meaning: there were/are several others easier to convert that aren't Prohibited.
My Aussie ones, the Brit, and all remaining Canadian ones now sit in a cold dark cabinet, only taken out for occasional cleaning over a cold pint, and tape of The Wild Geese, or The Odd Angry Shot.
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That is correct - now used for teh storage of PP&S and archived files. Right across the hall from my RSM's office and across and 3 doors down from mine. Those were the days - "sign the paysheet, draw your rifle and form up on the parade square - we're doing drill for the next 3 hours..."



blake
 
I shot 1000's of rounds though an FN C1A1 as a teenager! I was in the army cadets and spent my summers in Vernon BC at the base on the highway. Every morning we would march down to the armory and pick up a rifle and carry it with us all day long. I was hoping to pick one them up sometime but have never seen one since. We went through bayonet drills, target shooting, shooting blanks on parade and cleaning cleaning cleaning. I think they still use them in Vernon at the base.... Hmmm. Anybody want to sell me one??
 
paulz said:
Thought about buying a "bra" several times, but never did. Had some '64 stuff (belt, grenade pouch and canteen), but got rid of it. I do have a full set of '82 which I thought of using for a prop for that photo, but didn't have the room on the table.:D

Somewhere on another thread, someone, I forget who, (Klunk maybe?), posted a picture of his C1A1 and C1 SMG with the old steel helmet, '64 webbing and a bunch of night vision stuff (drool!)

I did once see a "C1-1/2" (C1 receiver with C2 sights, barrel, gas block, carrying handle and bipod), but I did not have enough money at the time.

The "family" at the moment consists of the C1A1, an ex Singapore Police Lithgow L1A1 (newest features, laminated handguards etc), an ex New Zealand Lithgow L1A1 (old features, woodenbcarrying handle and forestock), a Brit L1A1 (Century mix-master with the black plastic stock and a S.U.I.T), and an Israeli. I am on the hunt for a "metric" FAL but 12-5 examples are few and far between. I will also probably pick up an Indian next time I come accross one.

I am saving several boxes of IVI 7.62mm ball for The Glorious Day (if it ever comes!) that we can get SAPs again, but I am not holding my breath.
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I have some FN mag pouches for the 82 web gear and an old cloth bandoleer with some of the card board inserts and FN combo tool....they would go nice with your theme....you bastard....lol:)

Sorry......FNC1A1 is my favorite rifle hands down and I can't own one.
 
I was fortunate enough in 1992 to get an FN C1A2 from Ontario Sporting Arms when they were un-restricted; now, of course, prohib.:mad:

It too was an ex OPP rifle and I have its provenance as to the relevant detachment. The OPP signage was also crudely obliterated after the UK FTR.

Us owners are subject to the political death of a thousand cuts. Bill C-10A got slipped in as an omnibus bill and decreed that SAPs would no longer be issued.

Whyinhell we needed SAPs in the first place just flies in the face of common sense. (Yeah, I know...common sense and C-68, etc...)

Explain to me please, the logic behind this...

M14-unrestricted, 7.62 mm NATO

AR 15-restricted, 5.556 mm NATO

FN-prohib, 7.62 mm NATO

All three are mag fed. All three are gas operated. Why the discrimination?

Gotta stop. Blood pressure is rising.:HR:
 
Rule 303 said:
I was fortunate enough in 1992 to get an FN C1A2 from Ontario Sporting Arms when they were un-restricted; now, of course, prohib.:mad:

It too was an ex OPP rifle and I have its provenance as to the relevant detachment. The OPP signage was also crudely obliterated after the UK FTR.

Us owners are subject to the political death of a thousand cuts. Bill C-10A got slipped in as an omnibus bill and decreed that SAPs would no longer be issued.

Whyinhell we needed SAPs in the first place just flies in the face of common sense. (Yeah, I know...common sense and C-68, etc...)

Explain to me please, the logic behind this...

M14-unrestricted, 7.62 mm NATO

AR 15-restricted, 5.556 mm NATO

FN-prohib, 7.62 mm NATO

All three are mag fed. All three are gas operated. Why the discrimination?

Gotta stop. Blood pressure is rising.:HR:
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The answer is obvious.............the FN is much more eeevil than the other two :bsFlag:
 
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