Fn Fal
- Thread starter aaronfisher
- Start date
Glen Valour
CGN Regular
- Location
- Winnipeg, MB
Having fired both an Israeli FAL and a C1A1 (C2- change lever, trigger plunger, extractor) on FA I agree with Corpus that it can be done and that it is quite controllable with a little practice. I'm sure if there were some Belgians, Rhodesians, or South Africans on the board they would be happy to confirm that the FAL is a proper terrorist killer.
Would doing this on a continuous basis burn out a barrel, sure it would. That's why the big army buys more than they need and has spare parts for them.
Would doing this on a continuous basis burn out a barrel, sure it would. That's why the big army buys more than they need and has spare parts for them.
Well that's you. National pride aside, i really dont see ANYTHING going for the FAL when you compare it to high-end AK's like Valmets and Galils... -more accurate, more durable, egronomic, versatile, easier to maintain... and better looking... what else could one ask for?
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Hehe, did I mention adjustable gas regulator system, left-side thumb safety, better length of pull, or how much easier it is to butt-stroke an attacker, attache a bi-pod to; or bayonet an opponent with a FAL vs. an AK? "Right Arm of the Free World" Baby! I'd take the FAL EVERY TIME!
These guys never lost a battle with it, and they wore out those barrels; punishing their FAL's plenty in the process (yet they still performed, even when they were in a state that most Army's would throw them away over)!
These guys never lost a battle with it, and they wore out those barrels; punishing their FAL's plenty in the process (yet they still performed, even when they were in a state that most Army's would throw them away over)!
Corpus said:
You dont seem to know anything about Valmet's and Galil's....
1) "Left side charging handle" - questionable is this is an advantage at all
2) "Longer barrel" - again, its questionable is this is a good thing. Makes the weapon bulkier and less egronomic at a cost of.... 20 fps muzzle velocity? Still, plenty of Valmet's and Galil's have longer barrels than the FAL...
3) "Better Ballance" - simply wrong...
4) "Better sights" - again, wrong... Valmet's have some of the best, if not the best iron sights ever issued on a combat rifle.
5) "And THIS" - Plenty of AK's (not only high-end ones) come in 7.62NATO if that's your thing..
6)"Adjustable gas regulator" - this is actually a disadvantage for the FAL.. Why would someone want to have to adjust the gas system when you can have a weapon (AK) that works with 100% reliability without having to do this?!?!
7) "Left side thumb safety" - Galil's have this also..
8) "Length of trigger pull" - Have you ever pulled a trigger on a Valmet or Galil? They have practically match-grade triggers..
9)"how much easier it is to butt-stroke an attacker, attache a bi-pod to; or bayonet an opponent with a FAL vs. an AK" - Explain to me how it is easier to butt-stroke an attcker or bayonet an opponent with a FAL?! Do these FAL's you're refering to come with heat seaking butt stocks and enchanced accuracy, self guided bayonets? As for bipods, many AK's come with them from the factory..
10) "These guys never lost a battle with it, and they wore out those barrels; punishing their FAL's plenty in the process (yet they still performed, even when they were in a state that most Army's would throw them away over)!"
- AK's have won more battles, and took WAY more punishment in the process. Many AK's that are in service today are in a state where any other weapon in the world (including FAL's) would be thrown out long time ago, and they still function reliably.
I'll take a "pepsi challange" with a Valmet against a FAL anyday, and come out on top 99 times out of 100
OK, im done
ok, assuming everything you say is correct; Devils Advocate here; what about the fact that .308 beats 7.62x39 hands down every time? You can win all those things you listed off, but you're not going to beat .308. GAME. POINT. MATCH. Huzzzzaaaahhhh!
Refer to point #5.
.308 doesnt beat 7.62x39 "every time". There are many obvious advantages to x39 - lighter, more compact, cheaper, more abundant, less recoil, better control in full auto... But again, there are LOTS of AK's (including, but not limited to Valmet's and Galils) that come from the factory in .308 (AKA 7.62NATO).
If you doubt or question any of the things i say, just ask
I can't really say anything against the AK, Valmet, or Galil, they are all fine rifles, but I like the FAL better, for the reasons that I listed above. I think the FAL has BETTER ergonomics, better range, better penetration, better knock-down, better sights, balance, ect. ect. than the AK platform. You've stated that you think exactly the opposite; so be it.
I own a Galil. I own an AK. I own a Vz.58. I used to own an AR. I own an M-14, and I own a FAL. (I own, and have owned a lot more than that, but for our discussion here that short-list suffices) I'd take the FAL hands down. I'd rather carry fewer rounds that went further, penetrated deeper, and knocked my opponent off his feet, and rely upon "aiming" rather than rely upon the assault weapon type rounds. I'm a Battle Rifle guy at the end of the day, not an Assault Rifle guy. The FAL is the finest Battle Rifle ever made IMO.
I own a Galil. I own an AK. I own a Vz.58. I used to own an AR. I own an M-14, and I own a FAL. (I own, and have owned a lot more than that, but for our discussion here that short-list suffices) I'd take the FAL hands down. I'd rather carry fewer rounds that went further, penetrated deeper, and knocked my opponent off his feet, and rely upon "aiming" rather than rely upon the assault weapon type rounds. I'm a Battle Rifle guy at the end of the day, not an Assault Rifle guy. The FAL is the finest Battle Rifle ever made IMO.
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Are you refering to .308 chambering? This is not true. The only reason why .308 was less popular with the military than the 7.62 or 5.56 was the same reason the 7.62 and 5.56 were introduced in the first place - the cartridge was too powerful for the task. Not because Valmet's and Galil's in .308 were somehow inferior to the .223 and 7.62 ones.
That is HIGHLY debatable. Our boys in Iraq and A-stan are BEGGING for 7.62x51 (.308) chambered Battle Rifles. The U.S. just bought a whole slew of new M-14's because of it, and the new SCAR system comes in 5.56x45 & 7.62x51 (.308) but when a poll was taken of currently serving troops, the majority of them were hoping to be issued the SCAR-H in .308. 7.62x39 is a good Assault Rifle round. The 5.56x45 is, and always has been a POLITICAL round (yes it works, but so does a .22 if you need it to; there are is what works, and what works better) The 7.62x51 (.308) is better than the 7.62x39 in many, many soldiers opinion. No you can't carry as much, but western soldiers made their reputation on marksmanship. Since Vietnam we have been moving away from that doctrine, and it has been a mistake. Also, the .308 Galil is, was, and never will be as inherently accurate as a FAL. The Galil doesn't have the extensive gas regulator system, or the left-side charging handle that the FAL has either.
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While you are entitled to your opinion, which i respect, the things you listed are just that - opinions. I dont "THINK the opposite", i know it based on hard FACTS. I can provide reliable sources for any of the arguments i stated.
Again, you seem to forget that AK's are widely available in .308 also. If you prefer the bigger round, so be it. Valmet's and Galils in .308 have exacly the same range, penetration and knock down power as FAL's in .308
Here's an intresting article on extreme torture testing of various assault rifles :
http://www.valmetweapons.com/uploads/File0513.pdf
........... Galil - No Malfunction, Valmet - No Malfunction, FN-FAL -5 rounds manually cycled, none fired.
Is this your idea of a "Finest battle rifle ever made" ?
The Valment has never seen real, global combat. The FAL has! No, the stuff you have listed doesn't add up with the FAL. The FAL FACTS that I listed are just as concrete as yours, plus, you had to list off several rifles to equal the total package of options contained in just ONE FAL! Non of those .308 chambered AK's are anywhere near as accurate as a FAL either! Look again. You're saying that if you carry 2-3 rifles instead of 1 then they together can beat the FAL; that's funny!
By your logic, then I could also say that the SCAR is the finest Stoner designed rifle type that has ever existed, because it's a decedent of the AR-15. What about the Magpul Madada, the HK-416, etc. Your arguing "hypothetical" and I'm telling you the FAL has been "proven." You're saying that between these other 3 options, the FAL has been equaled, and I'm telling you why mess with 3 rifles, some of which are not battle proven, when you can just KISS it and go with the thoroughbred that has been to the Abyss and has come back; that contains all the things you like about those rifles in one single package? You seem to be grasping for ANY reason not to go with the FAL; any combo of reasons/rifles, or hypothetical justification that you can land your hands on! Stop the insanity! The FAL has been doing everything right since day one. It's great that some of the rifles you listed are "wannabe's;" and they have done a good job of mimicking the FAL at various tasks, but none of them have eclipsed the original "KING B" of Battle Rifles as a single unit, battle proven, and neigh flawless! "Don't make no sense boy!"
P.S. The only real complaint with the FAL is sand fouling in the receiver, and even that is mitigated by a "sand cut" bolt. Yes, the AK deals with sand better, but that's it's only REAL advantage. The FAL with a "sand cut" bolt will deal with sand rather well though. Then again, how often do you fight in the sand? Now? A lot, sure, but with a eye to history? Not all that much. No one tool ever does every job well, but the FAL comes just about as close as you will ever get!
P.P.S. Somebody, inevitably, is going to throw up weight. To that I say: Swing, SLAP, switch! Swing, SLAP!, switch! Build those arms a bit boys; you're in the Army after all for God's sake! Look Lively!!!
P.S. The only real complaint with the FAL is sand fouling in the receiver, and even that is mitigated by a "sand cut" bolt. Yes, the AK deals with sand better, but that's it's only REAL advantage. The FAL with a "sand cut" bolt will deal with sand rather well though. Then again, how often do you fight in the sand? Now? A lot, sure, but with a eye to history? Not all that much. No one tool ever does every job well, but the FAL comes just about as close as you will ever get!
P.P.S. Somebody, inevitably, is going to throw up weight. To that I say: Swing, SLAP, switch! Swing, SLAP!, switch! Build those arms a bit boys; you're in the Army after all for God's sake! Look Lively!!!
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i read that article and couldn't help but notice they used an m1a, not an m14- those look somewhat the same, but the m14 ( esp a trw) is miles ahead in terms of engineering, tolerances, etc- the m1a is built to COMMERCIAL specs and is a crank em out affair, built for the masses who don;t know the difference- in my mind, and those of almost everyone who has been issued, carried /whatever , the m14 is the superior battle rifle- and in salt water environments to boot- btw, how do you adjust a fal for windage?- i used to know, but i've forgotten- all i can remember is the stupid disc falling down on more than one occasion, and the ladder that some used- elevation only
corpus i think we are agreeing and arguing at the same time. i have used both the fnc1a1 and the first version c7. i liked both. but i will be honest, when we got the word we were changing there was alot of hard feelings. at the time the brits were changing to the sa80 same fellings for them. about the over heating thing. if were talking 4 or 5 mags out of a rifle. yah the barrel will be very hot and servicesable. but if talking about gpmg's or say c2's or brens. sustained fire warps the barrel, and over heats the machine gun. causes malfunctions, cook offs ect. 3 second bursts "son of a #####". of course like a old korea vet told me. when they were being over run they just fired and fired (no chance to change barrels). he did say they poured water on the barrels but after the barrels were bent and distorted. that is a extreme case.i do remeber in battle school, we were firing the old gpmg. it was a real hot day pushing atleast 100. we were firing the g pig (not me), had a stopage went to clear it and had a cook off. so the heat of the day and the heat of 3 sec bursts was enough to set a round off.
corpus, no hard feelings? this sight is great. we all have opinions, and are allowed to express them. saying, that remember NOVEMBER 11th
corpus, no hard feelings? this sight is great. we all have opinions, and are allowed to express them. saying, that remember NOVEMBER 11th
