FN P90
- Thread starter cancer
- Start date
cancer said:
From one of the government Memorandum...
"Any rifle, shotgun or carbine stock of the type known as the “bull-pup” design, being a stock that, when combined with a firearm, reduces the overall length of the firearm such that a substantial part of the reloading action or the magazine-well is located behind the trigger of the firearm when it is held in the normal firing position."
Personally, I doubt that anyone will put forward the effort to import them except for movie props. (Battlestar Galactica) If they did, then the issue falls into the same test/trap of the Walther rifle this past year, along with all the headaches.
As for the ammo, it's questionable. From the OIC, the cartridges for the P-90 are prohibited. The problem is, that's too damn vague as to it's meaning. The prohibition is lumped in with other armour piercing pistol ammunition brands. I don't have a clue if the OIC applies to the newer ball and hollowpoint versions of the 5.7x28.
As for the ammo, it's questionable. From the OIC, the cartridges for the P-90 are prohibited. The problem is, that's too damn vague as to it's meaning. The prohibition is lumped in with other armour piercing pistol ammunition brands. I don't have a clue if the OIC applies to the newer ball and hollowpoint versions of the 5.7x28.
There is no "logic" to these laws.
Just like there was no logic to making all 5.7 x 28mm ammunition prohibited. Instead of just banning the armor piercing rounds as has always been the case before, this time they used such poor wording to ammend the legislation that they have ended up banning all of a certain caliber ammunition, even the non-armor piercing variations...
"Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a commonly available semi-automatic handgun or revolver and that is manufactured or assembled with a projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to be capable of penetrating body armour, including KTW, THV and 5.7 × 28 mm P-90 cartridges."
Just like there was no logic to making all 5.7 x 28mm ammunition prohibited. Instead of just banning the armor piercing rounds as has always been the case before, this time they used such poor wording to ammend the legislation that they have ended up banning all of a certain caliber ammunition, even the non-armor piercing variations...
"Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a commonly available semi-automatic handgun or revolver and that is manufactured or assembled with a projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to be capable of penetrating body armour, including KTW, THV and 5.7 × 28 mm P-90 cartridges."
That's just the point. The wording is horrible. The opening seems to be clear in refering souly to armour piercing projectiles. KTW and THV were stricktly armour piercing designs. At the time of the OIC's writting, I believe only AP 5.7x28 ammo was available. Times change. Do we have to try and differentiate between ammo intended for the P-90 from the newer FiveSeven pistol??
FN seem to have done exactly that in the US by taking the AP rounds off the market and restricting future sales to LEO.
About the only reason I have any interest in this is that Rhineland are planning a semi auto rifle that will work with the 10 round pistol mags in this caliber. :lol:
I was just thinking it'd be nice to have a .22LR firearm that would operate using the same magazine design as the P90. All the current large capacity .22LR magazines are funny for not working properly.
edditted for spelling
edditted for spelling
Canuck233... FN didn't take the AP off the market... it's always been a Law Enforcement / Military product only. In fact it is so highly controlled that I read recently the ammunition is kept in a seperate bonded facility (not FN's US facility) and only released upon approvals from BATF.
The Canadian law was ammended when the guns/ammo first came out. Since then FN released several other rounds (a sub-sonic... a practice... and a sporting round specifically for the civilian market which is not armor piercing). FN is shipping civilian FiveSeven handguns and PS90 semi-auto carbines in the US.
I'd love to bring some of the handguns in for civilian sales... but I doubt Ottawa will issue the IIC for them. Not given that the ammunition is apparently prohibited.
The Canadian law was ammended when the guns/ammo first came out. Since then FN released several other rounds (a sub-sonic... a practice... and a sporting round specifically for the civilian market which is not armor piercing). FN is shipping civilian FiveSeven handguns and PS90 semi-auto carbines in the US.
I'd love to bring some of the handguns in for civilian sales... but I doubt Ottawa will issue the IIC for them. Not given that the ammunition is apparently prohibited.
cancer said:
We had one. The Calico M-100. It had 100 round magazines that worked 100%. They fit on top of the gun and fed from the front/bottom of the mag down into the chamber. The feedlips were very similar to the factory Ruger.
Damn, I loved that gun. I nearly shot it to pieces. I cracked the lower reciever where the buffer sat. I shattered the roll pin that held the cocking lever.
F*&k You Kim Campbell !!!!!!!!!!! (edit for language - sorry as I share the sentiments)
Questar said:
OK, my info was just from perusing www.subguns.com and there was quite a hubub a while back about the AP ammo. If it was not intended for civilian sale, someone seems to have forgotten about it, cuz there's lots out there. (All being jacked up in price)
Then again, there seems to be a great game out of screwing with H&K and FN company policy
Armor piercing rounds are not illegal in the US.
This is quoted from the FNHUSA website:
"All 5.7 x 28 mm restricted ammunition (armor piercing) is sold only to law enforcement and military agencies. This ammunition is only released and shipped from a U.S. Customs controlled custom bonded warehouse (CBW) upon BATFE and U.S. Customs approval."
Having said that... once they sell it they can't really control what happens to it can they.
This is quoted from the FNHUSA website:
"All 5.7 x 28 mm restricted ammunition (armor piercing) is sold only to law enforcement and military agencies. This ammunition is only released and shipped from a U.S. Customs controlled custom bonded warehouse (CBW) upon BATFE and U.S. Customs approval."
Having said that... once they sell it they can't really control what happens to it can they.
I know of one five seven pistol in country. So they are importable.
And I would like to remind people that being a bullpup firearm doesnt make a gun prohibited. Add on stocks that are bullpup are what are prohibited. There are a few examples of bullpup guns that are fully legal like the AMP DRS1 rifle, high standard bullpup semi-auto shotgun, Barett M99 50 caliber rifle. All bullpup, all legal.
The CFC has even further cleared the definition up with the G22. There view is that if the gun can shoot without its bullpup stock, that stock is prohibited.
PS90 wont shoot without the stock.
FN FS2000 wont shoot without it.
Both should be importable.
And I would like to remind people that being a bullpup firearm doesnt make a gun prohibited. Add on stocks that are bullpup are what are prohibited. There are a few examples of bullpup guns that are fully legal like the AMP DRS1 rifle, high standard bullpup semi-auto shotgun, Barett M99 50 caliber rifle. All bullpup, all legal.
The CFC has even further cleared the definition up with the G22. There view is that if the gun can shoot without its bullpup stock, that stock is prohibited.
PS90 wont shoot without the stock.
FN FS2000 wont shoot without it.
Both should be importable.
Questar said:
So what would happen if you made a new design that placed both the action AND THE TRIGGER several inches rearward? It would be a slightly different feel to the hold of the gun, with your right elbow being bent at a much tighter angle. Sort of like firing a collapsable stock in the retracted position. I haven't tried doing that yet, but I suspect it wouldn't be a big problem. With an 18 inch barrel, and only 8 inches from rear of buttstock to boltface (or end of barrel, if you prefer), you could have a 26 inch gun. Legal? Unrestricted?
Canuck223 said:
I'm getting off track, I think they use Storms on Battlestar Galactica and P90's on the Stargate shows. Longshot here on the board works as the Armorer on those show I believe, so I guess he get to play with them for testing :twisted:
