For Immediate Release! CSAAA- Shotgun ban!!

thespen said:
Io1WXE0


12 Guage. No choke.

https://imgur.com/a/Io1WXE0

Just as a Compensator/flash hider won't count towards barrel length, I doubt a choke would count towards barrel diameter given it's not permanently fixed.

I imagine this is an oversight given that no one making the rules likely hunts and probably just did a quick search on bore diameters and saw a 10 or 12 gauge should fall just under 20mm.
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Slugo said:
I wonder where he came up with this information regarding how the bore will be measured? Typically when you order shotgun barrels, you specify this diameter for the barrel (the bore). Chokes are then added to restrict this diameter. Thus they become a restriction of the bore.

Can anyone provide a source for how the RCMP measures bore?
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RCMP cant even agree if the length of the barrel starts at the start of the chamber or the end if it. Muzzle devices such as muzzle breaks, even permanently welded on do not add to a barrel length, if you think they would not construed this to fit their will you are sadly mistaken.
 
C'mon people, we all know that shotguns and long guns were the next target once Parliament resumes to normal

after Covid-19 settles down. Turdeau and Blair have already stated this.

They're going full-retard just like Arden in N.Z and Australia before that. Turdeau has to one up Arden.

If this shotgun bore diameter/prohibited bs is for real then it's already stirred up a hornet's nest and the

hunting only crowd is affected too. Strength in numbers_may be a blessing to get millions pissed at the Liberals

and show people what their real agenda is, and that they are liars once again.

Trudeau and Blair are probably screaming for Gerald Butts and the other spin doctors to make this go away

so they can save face.:jerkit:

I'm watching for the Liberal's reply to this.
 
linux99 said:
I did read it. I have an LLB too. :d

I would argue that the hand wave here is that he draws the analogy with muzzle breaks - and insists that choke tubes be treated the same way. I'd love to see case law on that. Like a precedent.

Hmmmmm.

OK - so how many of you who have shotguns which can be fitted with choke tubes habitually fire them without?

Not having a muzzle break is the normal operating state of the rifle - being shot without a choke tube in place and breaking the threading at the end of your barrel is far from normal.

I think it is a weak parallel indeed.

Additionally he says that the bore is measured at the widest place in the barrel - maybe so.

So - how wide is the bore on a vented barrel? I would argue infinitely wide - my calipers can go all the way out to the whole rest of the universe if I want them to. Well that cant be a sensible interpretation.

Consequently it would seem that in interpreting this OIC you should take the ordinary and normal use of the words, subject to a reasonableness criteria.

Cant blame the guy for pointing out a potential extreme interpretation of the OIC - that's how he makes his living. But I think he's a long way from certain ground.

[to be clear though - neither he nor I are your lawyers - and you should act on neither piece of advice without getting external legal advice if you are worried]
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Finally a sensible argument. Thanks.

There are many reasons to be pissed about the new OIC and to fight it, but this is not one of them. It’s only the interpretation of one lawyer. It’s the same tactic the union use. Spread fear and half truth to get people all reeled up. It help sell membership cards i guess...

//Flamesuit on//
 
linux99 said:
You say this like it is a fact. It isn't. It is opinion.

That ANY of the chokes for sale by those 12G manufacturers would render the bore less and 20 mm is entirely pertinent here I think.
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I admit that if you cut the whole explanation I gave of why it can't make sense to include the choke, then the water does get muddy.

But as I said, the debate is mostly rhetorical. Plenty of people now posting pictures of shotguns with fixed chokes that are >20mm. Not sure if those pics are 12G or 10G, but the guns are now prohib.
 
FAQMAT said:
Finally a sensible argument. Thanks.

There are many reasons to be pissed about the new OIC and to fight it, but this is not one of them. It’s only the interpretation of one lawyer. It’s the same tactic the union use. Spread fear and half truth to get people all reeled up. It help sell membership cards i guess...

//Flamesuit on//
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Honestly - by getting all up in arms and arguing the extremes we do ourselves no good at all.

If we look and act like extremists we will simply be treated as such by the politicians and electorate. How will that further the agenda?
 
Not everyone functions like Trurdoo and Blair, they've both got a burned out light in their head so he cannot see things properly being in the dark.
 
We are not a court of law, just an community board. I tend to lean towards to most negative opinion though - as many others have pointed out, it is more consistent with the "spirit" of the OIC. Have seen some retailers pull shotguns from their online catalogues now. It's happening.
 
Let the oh-so-knowledgeable public figure out how shotguns are measured. We're just stating the facts that according to our information, those guns are indeed prohibited and cannot be used for hunting this year. (sounds familiar?) The more discussion there is about this, the more coverage it gets.
 
Reading through the posted document from the gazette I found this about the amnesty period -
"Other permitted activities during the amnesty period are to transport the firearm for any of the above purposes and to use the newly prohibited firearm, if previously non-restricted, to hunt for the purposes of sustenance or to exercise a right recognized and affirmed by section#35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 (the Constitution)."

Does this mean I can still safely use my shotgun for hunting when bird season comes around?
 
OlGil said:
Reading through the posted document from the gazette I found this about the amnesty period -
"Other permitted activities during the amnesty period are to transport the firearm for any of the above purposes and to use the newly prohibited firearm, if previously non-restricted, to hunt for the purposes of sustenance or to exercise a right recognized and affirmed by section#35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 (the Constitution)."

Does this mean I can still safely use my shotgun for hunting when bird season comes around?
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Are you normally covered by section 35? That's probably your answer.
 
A83 said:
Let the oh-so-knowledgeable public figure out how shotguns are measured. We're just stating the facts that according to our information, those guns are indeed prohibited and cannot be used for hunting this year. (sounds familiar?) The more discussion there is about this, the more coverage it gets.
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The thing is that it is what the LEO then an there thinks and does.

They could believe that it is measured from the outside of the barrel or decide on a double it is across both barrels.

The extent of errors with other issue does not rule out extreme obtuseness etc or outright errors by those in the field.
 
linux99 said:
Are you normally covered by section 35? That's probably your answer.
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I was more looking at the "to hunt for the purposes of sustenance" not the "or to exercise a right recognized and affirmed by section#35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 (the Constitution)."
 
Milanczar said:
The thing is that it is what the LEO then an there thinks and does.

They could believe that it is measured from the outside of the barrel or decide on a double it is across both barrels.

The extent of errors with other issue does not rule out extreme obtuseness etc or outright errors by those in the field.
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Sure, the more confusing answers we get, the more people realize how poorly-crafted this ban is. Until the RCMP outright says it's either banned (which will piss off EVERYONE) or not banned (which will open the door to invalidating other parts of the order), we want to ask as many questions about this as possible.
 
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