Furlong Dethroned?????

It will be interesting to see how the story pans out. Either way, I hope Harrison manages to get through whatever fame and notoriety that comes his way, I understand that fame was not kind to Furlong.

http://www.schmidtbender.com/PMspecs5_25x56LP.htm says that that particular scope (I'm not sure if that is the exact model used by the Brits or not) has "Elevation range: 0-26Mrad". I am not sure if they mean 0-26 mils relative to the scope's mechanical axis or if it is in fact +/- 13 mils relative to the scope's mechanical axis. (BTW the former would be _smart_, but I am not aware of any scope maker who actually does this!)

CV32 what is the source of your info that the L115A3 uses a 48MOA scope base? That number would make very good sense. With 93 MOA of adjustment in the scope, which would be nominally +/- 46.5 MOA around it's centre, adding 48 MOA to that in the base would give a nominal scope adjustment range of +1.5-94.5MOA relative to boreline. This would permit zeroing the rifle at 100 yards/metres within a few clicks of the mechanical bottom of the scope's elevation range.

Although it is possible to set up a scope such that at the lower limit of its mechanical adjustment range it is sighted in for some intermediate distance (perhaps in the 500m-600m neighbourhood), and this might even arguably be "OK" with a strictly long range sniper rifle, I would be surprised if they actually did this. Losing the inherent simplicity of being able to directly aim at a target at short ranges is something that I would think a sniper unit would ponder long and hard before giving up.

With our best guesses here it sounds like the shooter may have been short or "missing" some elevation, perhaps as much as 40-50 MOA. When the details of the Harrison's story finally emerge, I will be interested to know how it was that he held for elevation.
 
Most intelligent observation made on this whole thread.

The math majors with the mil rad this, MOA that, and the fancy ballistics software all think they are the smart ones.

It is pure BS any way you slice it.:)

Morpheus32:

That was very informative. Thanks!

The one thing that strikes me as fishy about this story is the timing of it. This story was released just a few days before the UK general election on May 6th, and support for the war in Afghanistan is one of their major issues. Releasing a positive news story about a war hero making a record breaking shot is very clever.

In the UK the newspapers will publicly take sides during the election and officially endorse a candidate. The Times have officially endorsed David Cameron (Conservatives) and their plan to increase the number of troops serving in Afghanistan. The Times were handed this story on a silver platter.

I have no doubt in my mind that this Craig Harrison is an outstanding soldier but I fear his story is being exploited (or worse, embellished) for the election. The UK's future role in Afghanistan is being determined this week so maybe a bit of yardage padding was justified. :)
 
CV32 what is the source of your info that the L115A3 uses a 48MOA scope base?

Interwebz rumour only, at this point. I have been searching for the UK MoD Sniper System Improvement Program (SSIP) contract specifications, to see if the base is specified in there, but no luck thus far.
 
Morpheus32:

That was very informative. Thanks!

The one thing that strikes me as fishy about this story is the timing of it. This story was released just a few days before the UK general election on May 6th, and support for the war in Afghanistan is one of their major issues. Releasing a positive news story about a war hero making a record breaking shot is very clever.

In the UK the newspapers will publicly take sides during the election and officially endorse a candidate. The Times have officially endorsed David Cameron (Conservatives) and their plan to increase the number of troops serving in Afghanistan. The Times were handed this story on a silver platter.

I have no doubt in my mind that this Craig Harrison is an outstanding soldier but I fear his story is being exploited (or worse, embellished) for the election. The UK's future role in Afghanistan is being determined this week so maybe a bit of yardage padding was justified. :)

That is convenient however in the same edition they discussed the sniper that is killing Brit troops including a couple of snipers. It was a negative story.

In order for you idea to be correct, your talking about a conspiracy involving a significant number of people....including soldiers, officers, the MoD. I am afraid that I can not agree with you throughts. Conspiracies work great in the movies however the number of people involved with the objective you mention....plus creating a checkable fact...like a shot like this. Is going to unravel rather quickly. Seriously you could say the same thing about our "shot" since politically there was a push to continue the combat mission instead of going to Kabul like we did....

So can't agree.
 
That is convenient however in the same edition they discussed the sniper that is killing Brit troops including a couple of snipers. It was a negative story.

In order for you idea to be correct, your talking about a conspiracy involving a significant number of people....including soldiers, officers, the MoD. I am afraid that I can not agree with you throughts. Conspiracies work great in the movies however the number of people involved with the objective you mention....plus creating a checkable fact...like a shot like this. Is going to unravel rather quickly. Seriously you could say the same thing about our "shot" since politically there was a push to continue the combat mission instead of going to Kabul like we did....

So can't agree.

Ohh I wasn't really trying to imply it was a conspiracy. I'm just saying the reason the media rushed it (without waiting for official verification of the distance from the military) was the election. As you had previously explained, there is a long process in confirming if this is a new record. I'm just saying that I am not surprised the British media would jump the gun on this story considering it is the week of the election. (The part about some yardage padding was a joke, thus the smiley face :D).
 
Last edited:
Interwebz rumour only, at this point. I have been searching for the UK MoD Sniper System Improvement Program (SSIP) contract specifications, to see if the base is specified in there, but no luck thus far.

IIRC (and I may not) SSI did not specify the base taper in the RFP. I have literally 2000 pages of documents in respect to this...If I get bored I will have a look;)
 
You have no reason to explain yourself when you make a very intelligent, common sense comment.

Pure B.S. There, I said it again.



Ohh I wasn't really trying to imply it was a conspiracy. I'm just saying the reason the media rushed it (without waiting for official verification of the distance from the military) was the election. As you had previously explained, there is a long process in confirming if this is a new record. I'm just saying that I am not surprised the British media would jump the gun on this story considering it is the week of the election. (The part about some yardage padding was a joke, thus the smiley face :D).
 
Ohh I wasn't really trying to imply it was a conspiracy. I'm just saying the reason the media rushed it (without waiting for official verification of the distance from the military) was the election. As you had previously explained, there is a long process in confirming if this is a new record. I'm just saying that I am not surprised the British media would jump the gun on this story considering it is the week of the election. (The part about some yardage padding was a joke, thus the smiley face :D).

No worries. If they did not carry some of the negative news, I might agree. I just find that sometime, we feel the need to explain everything...I just don't see it as that strong a linkage to supporting the election. I read the brit news based on a project that I am doing....I just don't see it. I do think however they are working to increase the breast size of the page 3 girls....that might be a better indicator of intent!
 
I could have missed a comment or two in all this reading but no one has brought up the fact that being able to get your crosshairs onto a target that far away is near impossible. I'll try to take a picture through my scope set on 25power with something human sized at 2700yds the next time I go out just to give the forum an idea of how far away that this and what a human looks like at that distance.

That aside, bullet drop could be also factored in if these snipers are on a mountain top looking down at a compound which would definitely help out with bullet drop BUT would complicate the #### out of making as many hits as he did.

Bottom line still. You can't hit what you can't see so hopefully I'll get out this weekend and snap of shot of a brave soul that is willing to get infront of my sites at 2700yds. I've never shot quite that far so I'm curious to see what things look like at that distance too.
 
I was thinking the same. How could he tell he got a gut shot and a side shot at 25 power?
They would look like specs at that range wouldn't they?
 
Ok everyone....a little bit of reality check here. Firstly the details of this shoot are based on the reporting of journalist who was not there, used google to fill in details and is writing for a tabloid newspaper. Recall the high power sniper rifle in our local news that turns out to be a scoped 22LR? Feel free to argue the details of the story but remember the source.

GPS. Current military GPS are very accurate. Your cheap GPS from Canadian Tire....not so accurate.

Verification. Having participated in the CF verification of the 50 cal shot in 2002...there is a process and it does not march to the beat of the newspaper timelines. I would suggest that the verification process has occured or is ongoing. Like anything, the commanders on the ground would want to make darn sure the data was accurate as they would look like fools. In terms of public announcement....the official public CF recognition or confirmation...took over a year. Internally it was announced and recognized early however we (the CF) went to great lengths to keep the shooters name out of the public realm. The MoD appears to have initially done it but later decided to run with it since his name was out.

Details of the shoot. Right now, we know three hits. Brit range cards for the 338LM are a graph vice a table. The one I have, as issued to the Brit mil covers out to 3000m...so potential the shooter had the data. Who knows if there was sighter shots....they may have left that out or a previous engagement may have provided the shooting data....who knows. In any case, it appears to be some incredible shooting.

Knocking out the LMG. I think this is tabloid trash. He might have hit it but the details are added to explain things and make the story more interesting.

I suggest we wait for the MoD press release. Might provide all the arm chair facts that some are so desperate to discuss :)

For the record...have a look at the discussion board in 2002...there are the same types of comments on Cpl Furlongs shot.....as I said...lets wait and see rather than mentally masterbate over the "facts" as provided by the Times!

Can you elaborate on the verification process, and making a record official? This is very interesting.
 
Are you guys confusing the shot made previously by ' Arron Perry ' (CF) that was the world record , briefly , then was dethroned by Furlong ?
 
Back
Top Bottom