GAP Rifles

I don't think their(GAP) prices are all that bad. The trade off seems to be between import hassles and wait times for local smiths. I haven't heard anyone mention the issue of importing barrels. I'm sure most smiths don't carry stock of high quality barrels.

On a side note, if you want to see ridiculous prices check out SOCOM Supply and their rifles. Nice kit but insane prices.

TDC
 
Not trying to piss anyone off but if a smith can build a rifle for BR accuracy/competition (shoot in the 1's at 200yds), that person is more then qualified to put a pipe on a working rifle. It would be a whole lot easier as he doesn't need to do as good of a job.

A BR 'smith would get strung up if his rifle only shot 1/2 MOA.

That BR quality smith might just do a better job of bedding that rifle and tuning the trigger as it is so critical to have that done well in a BR rig.

I have had the pleasure of having rifles built and using rifles built by several quality Cdn smiths. ALL have shot teeny tiny groups at LR.

Like all things in life, if a brand name is desired, go for it. Life is sometimes too short to not get the dream toy.

However, if one thinks that only big dollar brand name rifles will work, sorry, not true.

A tuned Rem 700 with a match barrel, dropped into a mass produced stock just isn't that unique nowadays... nor all that expensive.

Remember that in the pre custom BR action era, tons of Rems were tuned to shoot exceptional BR accuracy. Almost all had to have some manner of controlling the bolt body during lock up and firing for maximum performance.

This is not something usually done in the tactical world and certainly not mentioned in the GAP basic rifle. If the back end of the bolt is not controlled, all the work at the front end of the bolt may just be a big waste of time and energy.

I bet the new Rem 5R tactical rifle with a nice HS stock will do just as good a job and is only selling for $1150 - Frontier Firearms and others. Wait time - ZIPPO. Are the barrels from Mike Rock too?

Jerry
 
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I bet the new Rem 5R tactical rifle with a nice HS stock will do just as good a job and is only selling for $1150 - Frontier Firearms and others. Wait time - ZIPPO. Are the barrels from Mike Rock too?
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I highly doubt it. By the way, the barrel is Remington, not Rock Creek. Same 5R profiling but that's where the similarity ends.

There's no doubt others can do an equally competent job putting a rifle together. It aint exactly rocket science here. So what? If that what somebody wants, so be it. At least you can get a GAP in relatively short order. I've heard guys on here claiming they've waited over a year to have their projects completed. That's completely unacceptable regardless of what side of the border you buy from.
 
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TDC said:
I haven't heard anyone mention the issue of importing barrels. I'm sure most smiths don't carry stock of high quality barrels.

TDC
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The issue is that each customer usually has very specific preferences for their barrel including twists, materials, grooves and contours. I could stock non-contoured barrels, but the price for a contoured vs. non-contoured is the same. The price of the convenience of having the barrel inventory on hand would be passed on for the cost of tying up $$ in inventory on a shelf; There would be additional cost from the gunsmith of contouring over top of the barrel price.

There are Canadian dealers for just about every top quality barrel made.
It is only a question of waiting for the order to be filled
 
Gentlemen, do these numbers look correct?

Surgeon action $1300 + shipping
McMillan stock $ 500 + shipping
M Rock 5R barrel $500 + shipping
D D Ross bottom $ 250 + shipping ( I'm guessing)
Leupold Mk4 rings $ 150 + shipping

Total so far $2700 + total shipping. Now, someone's gotta get paid to put it together. Now look at GAP's price, and don't forget about our current dollar value ( 1:1 )

I'ts close but their price includes assembly. Someone do the math and help me out here!!
 
Don't forget to add $300 for import fees (Questar) and you're at $3000. I'd say not bad for a custom BUILT and imported rifle.

Obtunded,

I understand the cost of carrying stock. Which leads me to believe that having a custom built rifle done in Canada would only add to the wait time when considering you need to order/import a barrel amongst other items. I wouldn't imagine any dealers carrying McMillian stocks either.

TDC
 
From what I understand , you can get M rock barrels in CANADA AS WELL AS SURGEON.

TDC, Those prices were to build in canada and no smith price was included. Not importing from the us.
 
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Have you thought about trying Keith Cunningham at MilCun?
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Yea X 2 he can build anything that is as good or better IMO. I have shot his course guns and they are tac drivers. It would be money well spent IMO.
 
kel226 said:
Gentlemen, do these numbers look correct?

Surgeon action $1300 + shipping
McMillan stock $ 500 + shipping
M Rock 5R barrel $500 + shipping
D D Ross bottom $ 250 + shipping ( I'm guessing)
Leupold Mk4 rings $ 150 + shipping

Total so far $2700 + total shipping. Now, someone's gotta get paid to put it together. Now look at GAP's price, and don't forget about our current dollar value ( 1:1 )

I'ts close but their price includes assembly. Someone do the math and help me out here!!
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Rock barrels are listed at $295.

Costs to add on. Import/export. My guess is $300 on each side of the border. Less if willing to do the work on this side of the border. $600??

They don't include rings. I don't think they use bottom metal or bed the action???

Additional upcharge for the Surgeon $360.

Shipping costs from GAP to FFL dealer to importer to you. My guess an additional $300 as it will be oversized international plus all the necessary security measures. I doubt they will be sending it by regular mail.

Then there is Cdn sales/GST taxes. No idea what that value would be declared at????

I can see you net cost from GAP closer to $2300 + 360 + $300 + $600 = $3960 + taxes ($450?) = $4200 to 4500. No bottom metal and no bedding included. Confirm costs with those who have already done all this.

In Canada, $1300 for the action + $350 for a pipe + $500 for the stock + $200 to install pipe + $100 to paint + $25 to ship to you = $2475 + taxes = $2775ish.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
They don't include rings. I don't think they use bottom metal or bed the action???
Jerry
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Jerry, GAP pillar beds the action and use the stock Remingtion bottom metal on their "Basic" package rifle.

But lots guys these days want a detachable mag with a couple extra mags, so that adds another $500.00 or so.........and there always are a few little extras that you find you need......:rolleyes:

I am thinking the $4,000.00 to $4,500.00 price range with all the permit/dealer fees, shipping, and taxes thrown in Is a realistic price. Plus the price of a decent scope for that badboy.........;)

Delivery time is the big unknown in regards to having all the paperwork in order and having to deal with a Stateside FFL dealer..........

There are enough top notch Smiths in Canada that could do this cheaper and probably have it completed by the time the GAP rifle would hit your door.;) ...................As long as you plan in advance and have the smith booked for your project..........

SKBY.:D
 
Got a nice US optics piece of glass imported from the factory for it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I would have to order the stock from McMillan as Yes there are no retailers here in Canada but there are guys that carry Rock barrels and surgeon actions, is this true to anyones knowledge?
 
kel226 said:
Got a nice US optics piece of glass imported from the factory for it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I would have to order the stock from McMillan as Yes there are no retailers here in Canada but there are guys that carry Rock barrels and surgeon actions, is this true to anyones knowledge?
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All the parts you desire are carried by Canadian dealers. There are a few who have "revolving door" shippments with McMillan, (one for sure).

A dealer who almost always will have a Surgeon action around.

VBull Bottom Metal, (Arguably the best system around right now). In my opinion it is the best.

Several Canadian dealers who stock Mike Rock barrels, Krieger barrels, and several Canadian barrel makers who also make comprable quality barrels. (McPhee, RKS (Smith barrels), Gaillard, and I think there's at least one other).

As stated by several others in this thread, there are Canadian gunsmiths who are more than capable of building you a rifle who's accuracy will likely far exceed the shooter. If you really want a GAP, Patriot, IBA, TBA, Terry Cross rifle and have the cash, don't let things hold you back. Keep in mind that importing is a REAL P.I.T.A. and will cost you additional funds.

If your heart is not set on any of the big US builders, then research one of the Canadian ones and save yourself the hassle of the cross boarder stuff.

There are a select few Canadian builders producing some incredible work right now. Why go south?

Keep in mind, these guys do this to put food on the table. If all their business "goes south" then next time you need your rifle fixed in a pinch, or re-barrel job, you'll suffer through all the BS to get it back and fourth across the boarder. I like to support Canadian first. If I can't get it here, then I'll look elsewhere.

Anyhow, do your homework. Once you settle on a budget, then look at components, then someone to assemble (or source and assemble) for you.

Take your finished rifle, go and enjoy:D
 
I would have to agree with you Blackcloud. Just tossed up the GAP idea but am probably going to get it built up here. Thanks for all the helpfull info and thanks to everyone else on this forum site, gotta love the input!!

On a short note , have you partook in any of the tactical matches? Are they worth going magazine instead of single shot? Haven't decided yet.
 
Skullboy said:
Jerry, GAP pillar beds the action and use the stock Remingtion bottom metal on their "Basic" package rifle.

SKBY.:D
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I scratched my head when I read that too. Doesn't the McM stock come with an Alum chassis?

If it does, why would you need to pillar bed?

If it does come with a drop in Alum chassis, why wouldn't you bed it properly as the inletting on these stocks are usually horrid. Sorry, applying large amounts of torque to bend an action to a crush fit is not my idea of accuracy.

So instead, they prefer to balance a good action on the top of two posts and let all the recoil/torque forces slosh around between the action and whatever chassis it runs into.

I hope they also upgrade your action screw bolts to like GRADE 12.

Seems the basics are being ignored...

Jerry
 
kel226 said:
I would have to agree with you Blackcloud. Just tossed up the GAP idea but am probably going to get it built up here. Thanks for all the helpfull info and thanks to everyone else on this forum site, gotta love the input!!

On a short note , have you partook in any of the tactical matches? Are they worth going magazine instead of single shot? Haven't decided yet.
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The matches are a blast! Once you rifle up, sign up for the BCRA Precision Rifle Tactical match and come out and shoot. Lots to learn, lots of great people, and a great place to put some wear and tear on your new pride and joy.

As for mag fed, yes it is very nice to have 10 round mags at your finger tips.

The VBull set up is made incredibly well and uses the tried and true Accuracy International Mags (hands down the best mag on the market). Plus, its designed and made in Canada by Ed Begg at VBull Precision. Price is on par with any of the other quality mag systems.
 
WOW. What are they using for fill to get their stocks so heavy?????

Then pillar bed AND conventionally bed the action in the stock. You definitely need all the support you can give that stock.

For that type of money and weight, I am very surprised. Now that is awesome brand premium!!!!!

Have a look at Stockade gun stocks. They have an alum chassis and composite exterior. Their varmint/tactical shape is excellent and their out of mold base model is very well priced by comparison.

Also, the Bell and Carlson Medalist or Choate versions. Alum chassis, composite exterior/RIM for dirt cheap.

Presently playing with a Choate varminter stock. Surprisingly very nicely put together. Typically horrid inletting in the alum chassis but a bit of work and bedding and all is well. A nice solid stock set up for high scope useage - Awesome for F class or LR shooting.

For fun in the sun, laminated stocks are excellent too.

If building this tactical/comp rifle, a Quality dmag is a must. Center feed is the best way to go if available. For the Rem, the AI mag is the standard but very pricey. For Savage, the factory mag is really very good and readily available at $45 each. someone needs to start making 10rds versions.

If you prefer a blind mag, make sure that it can hold the max number of shells you need to complete a course of fire. Thumbing in rds under the stress of any 'event' is just silly.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
If you prefer a blind mag, make sure that it can hold the max number of shells you need to complete a course of fire. Thumbing in rds under the stress of any 'event' is just silly.
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At the last comp, you couldn't load your rifle until they said 'load', with only a few seconds until the match was underway. Saw more than one person fumbling trying to load internal mags under stress. Most just gave up on it and single loaded rounds instead. That's the big reason to go with something like the Vbull kit, I've got one works like a charm.
 
BC_Guy said:
At the last comp, you couldn't load your rifle until they said 'load', with only a few seconds until the match was underway. Saw more than one person fumbling trying to load internal mags under stress. Most just gave up on it and single loaded rounds instead. That's the big reason to go with something like the Vbull kit, I've got one works like a charm.
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We have changed that for 08 to a load at the one minute mark in the two minute prep period. Sorry to those that the timing screwed them over. We have just tried to keep safety at the forefront to prevent AD's, but murphy found us anyways:rolleyes:

Jerry,
Mcmillan stocks usually get aluminum pillars installed and the usual Devcon Steel epoxy bedding. They don't have an aluminum bedding block like the HS stocks do.
 
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