I have an SP-01 Shadow with a Stainless steel guide rod. Its pretty damn accurate. In a ransom rest...with handloads...MAYBE it will shoot a 6 inch group at 50m. Fist sized to me is 4x4in. The best I've done off hand is to keep them all on a "huns head" target. Thats with 115gr +P IVI 9mm ball. I don't consider myself to be an amazing pistol shooter but i'm no slouch either. It's a friggin hard standard to achieve.
Glocks and practice.....
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Hmm, I have a Shadow as well and I know it will hold the A-zone at 50 easily if I do my part, which I don't always, admittedly. The sights on it are good for speed but only so-so for precision. It's an accurate gun though, that's for sure. I prefer 147's over 115's.
I don't own a Ransom rest so I haven't tested it in one.
An excellant idea for a new thread. Go for it. Might be a real eye opener for a few folks. I will be looking forward to seeing it.
Waynetheman
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My guns are always more capable than I am.... And so are you apparently :-D
The problem comes from him basically saying that Glocks are unusable in their stock form. I don't care if he needs to alter his guns in order to shoot them, but he needs to keep perspective and admit that he can't shoot them stock, not that they can't be shot in stock configuration.
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V4 connector in combo with a comp spring kit cost next to nothing and really improve the awfull stock glock trigger.
i can tell from my experience that NOBODY would even think about shooting a stock glock in the IPSC standard class for good reasons ; most 1911's and 2011 trigger weight break are into the 1.5 to 2.5 lbs with little to no pre travel , which are the plateform used by nearly every top class shooters around the world.....is that means those top shooters are lacking fundamentals?? sorry, but this rethoric is just bull clapp.
even with a drop in trigger and spring kit + a dremel session , a glock trigger will never reach the trigger weight break of 1911's -2011's . that means, anyways you look at it, yes you still have to master your fundamentals wether you shoot a 1911 or a tricked glock.
as for slow fired groups and pinky tight groupings, i personally think it's very important ,it brings the memory of the perfect sight picture. once you're good at getting the tightest groups, then it's time to increase the speed.
i will add to all this that jp's G22 and G17 were delivered with NY triigers. the 22 was AWFULL sporting a NY 2 with a 10 pounds weight break. so hard that the safety tab was leaving a cut on the trigger finger LOL...the 17 had a NY1, still very heavy weight break.
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That's pretty much it. I never bag on people for modifying glocks; mine all get dremeled at the trigger guard and I replace the slide releases and mag releases.
But understand what you are doing and why. The glock trigger isn't bad. They're a pretty easy gun to master and if you can't, then you need better fundamentals more than a new trigger.
If you're competing against world class shooters and need a 1% improvement in your score, go for it. Or if you just feel like it, go for it.
But no piece of hardware is a replacement for a software problem.
Buy the .22 conversion kit and put a couple of thousand rounds through it. I think that this will improve trigger control immensely. Next move on to the stock calibre of the pistol. Any deficiencies should be due to other non-trigger related marksmanship principles. As TDC says seek out training and coaching as this will teach to know what you don't know. I'm not into race guns with optics and all of that kit. I enjoy shooting stock pistols with nothing more than a $.25 trigger job and a decent set of sights.
I reduced pretravel by 90 percent by drilling a hole and putting in a screw so the trigger bar just engages the safety plunger, i put some lone wolf springs and i flattened the trigger face so its not round anymore. Drop tested from 7 feet , the other 2 safeties work and i have a 4 pound trigger with no pretravel, for 20 bucks lol. Ive made my own beaver tail by dremeling one up from the frame. Glocks are really easy to work on, just dont do a 25 cent trigger job , just buy disconector and springs and a dremel 
Glocks often shoot a lil left because of the rounded trigger face and the pretravel is awefull. Its nice that they are polymer frames that can b sanded down to fit your own hand. You can also overcome this by many thousands of rounds of practice as dry firing doesnt really mimick the recoil and having to readjust your grip from slight movement due to recoil. Dry firing is more for a perfect world scenerio, real rounds down range is ehat your looking for. If its too much trouble jus buy a cz with 2 pound trigger and 0 pretravel, non polymer frame,small front sight for better accuracy and a better grip angle. But theres not alot of guys that can shoot a glock really well. Glock is however more reliable with cheap upgrades and a ton of aftermarket stuff.
I reduced pretravel by 90 percent by drilling a hole and putting in a screw so the trigger bar just engages the safety plunger, i put some lone wolf springs and i flattened the trigger face so its not round anymore. Drop tested from 7 feet , the other 2 safeties work and i have a 4 pound trigger with no pretravel, for 20 bucks lol. Ive made my own beaver tail by dremeling one up from the frame. Glocks are really easy to work on, just dont do a 25 cent trigger job , just buy disconector and springs and a dremel
Can see some pics?
Is the whole point of this discussion to be able to shoot well with a stock trigger or to be able to shoot well?
If a guy can shoot loonie groups at 10 yards with an aftermarket trigger than who cares about fundamentals and training, Is he not still shooting well?
Yes the trigger may be compensating for improper fundamentals but who cares, the groups are great and he/she is enjoying themselves.
Some people don't want to shoot a 12lb trigger, why? - Because it sucks. I could live on Mr.Noodles three times a day, but I'd rather not.
If a guy can shoot loonie groups at 10 yards with an aftermarket trigger than who cares about fundamentals and training, Is he not still shooting well?
Yes the trigger may be compensating for improper fundamentals but who cares, the groups are great and he/she is enjoying themselves.
Some people don't want to shoot a 12lb trigger, why? - Because it sucks. I could live on Mr.Noodles three times a day, but I'd rather not.
If you can't shoot a Glock well, you can't shoot well.
Let's say I've taken a bunch of fairly quick cars around a track. Nobody's ever trained me; I don't have the ability to score my times against other people except perhaps informally against other complete amateurs; I have also never used anything but automatic transmissions.
Now I buy myself a G37 with a manual transmission.
After a few trips to the track - and still no training - I post a thread on a car forum that's titled something like "Infinitis suck, I'm selling mine to someone who doesn't care about going fast."
If that forum has some serious drivers, amateur or pro, highly trained and experienced, and they find out I just can't drive stick, do you know what will happen?
Some people who don't know anything about performance driving will say "just be happy with your autos, autos are awesome I love mine lol".
People with experience and skill will tell me to learn to ####ing drive.
I could take the advice of people who don't know what they're talking about, or I could take the advice of experts.
Frankly I don't care which people prefer to do...I'm really only bothered by people who can't tell the difference between good and bad advice, who still feel they should be giving input. And people who take bad advice while telling themselves it's good advice, because it's easier than taking the good advice.
If you don't care about being a good driver, you don't need to learn stick.
Even if you are a good driver, you don't have to drive a standard car.
But if you can't drive stick, you're not really a great driver, so don't pretend you are.
