GPST Gets the Boot

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I realize that this thread is about the IPSC league, but the evening before they got the boot, the PPC league got the same treatment.

They also are more disgusted about the way it was handled, rather than the why.

But life will go on. Imo though, we have enough problems from outside ( CFO etc ) without getting problems from within. But ( sigh ) what else is new.
 
I am speaking here as a club member at TSE and not as an employee. I happen to know the guys operating TSE personally and I know for a fact that they are not doing anything to screw over the leagues in Ontario. If anything they are trying to save the range they use and maybe, just maybe, help the shooting sports in Ontario grow. Out here we have leagues all over the place, you can't throw a stick without hitting an IPSC/IDPA/APRA/DPL member. I can drive in any direction out of the city and find a league doing something somewhere within an hour. JR is out there to help, not hinder, trust me on this!

There have been several concerns directed at the barring of "non-members" from participating in league or organisation matches. I assure you that this will be addressed. At TSE they have one day club membership passes that allow you to be a member from the time you walk in until the time the doors close that night. This is only one way around the members only concern and I'm sure that JR is looking at this as well as other options to assure that the shooting Orgs and Leagues are accommodated and the venue gets the money it needs to survive. Lets be honest folks, if the ranges don't thrive, the sports will die. If you have any questions regarding the price structure, check out the TSE link at the top and see for yourselves how the club, store & range do it.
 
A lot of shooters just don't appreciate the amount of money needed to keep an indoor range functional and safe. I worked in the 1990's at a range/shop very similar to TSE/Target, that ran leagues for IPSC, PPC and Bullseye. These leagues were for members only, unless a regional match was being run, and then the shooters were charged a match/entry fee. These fees went back into the range for upkeep, but it was never enough.

And, most IPSC/PPC shooters NEVER spent a dollar in our store, to buy anything related to their sport (guns, gear, bullets, primers, targets, etc.). They would shop around for the cheapest deal, and buy elsewhere, often as a group, unless they got an "IPSC discount" :rolleyes:. Fair enough. But, give enough discounts, and enough free range use, and pretty soon the range is history. And, that's what happened. Store goes broke, range gets neglected/shutdown, and no one has a place to shoot. So, good luck getting free access anywhere (unless you to want to volunteer your time working there ;)).
 
Like all games in life... Ya gotta pay to play.
I don't see what all the fuss is about... Range is under new management, new rules may apply...
From the times I visited Target Sports I always walked away wondering "How the hell do they make enough money to pay their bills?"
At the risk of offending... I thought the store was rinky dink and really... any time I was interested in anything it either "belonged" to one of the employees or was otherwise there, but unavailable for purchase...
More than once I arrived prepared to part with a few hundred bucks only to leave puzzled and bewildered as to why they couldn't/wouldn't sell me anything....
 
I am sorry, but I cannot stay quiet any longer. You have to pay to play. I am sure that is true. Kick out 100+ members and tell them to pack up and leave by Feb 5, well that is another story. How likely are the members going to support a club or organization that has kicked them out. Tact or negotiations were never made or attempted. If this is a form of negotiations, well then let me tell you it really sucks. Who here would support someone or a business if the rolls were reversed. All I say is their is a way to do things and all though I only here good things about TSE, I for one being a member of GPST have to be loyal to my club. Were they go I go. I have been a good customer of Target sports in the past. Trading 4 guns and buying an AR, S&W 625, Dillon 650 and the list goes on. Pat and Dave are good guys at least with me they were.
I was at the match when it was told to us to get out by Feb. 5. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth. We thought, that's it? just like that? DL was upset and so were we. We liked shooting there and were not given a chance to negotiate.
So I can speak for myself. I will have a wait and see attitude. I can only hope that things will work out for the better. I personally will hold off spending my money at Target Sports. I do hope that they can persuade our members and myself that they are going to be just as good as The TSE as so many of our western brothers have stated.
All the best to both the GPST and Target sports for the New Year.
John.
 
Can anyone explain why you want to alienate a 100+ IPSC members plus the PPC shooters it makes no business sense to me:D:D
 
gambit said:
Can anyone explain why you want to alienate a 100+ IPSC members plus the PPC shooters it makes no business sense to me:D:D
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How many of those IPSC memebrs were paying range memberships?

Sounds like the crux of the matter is that you may have a popular ISPC group using the facilities, but when a good portion of them don't spend a cent to support the facilities you have a loosing proposition.
 
it will be interesting to see how this pans out. if TSE can make the facility make a profit and be popular doing it, is a difficult challenge. If they will offer a competitive membership rate, then they have my attention. as it stands right now, i have two different gun club memberships around the area and it is still cheaper than a regular membership at Target sports.
 
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pjnorth said:
A lot of shooters just don't appreciate the amount of money needed to keep an indoor range functional and safe. I worked in the 1990's at a range/shop very similar to TSE/Target, that ran leagues for IPSC, PPC and Bullseye. These leagues were for members only, unless a regional match was being run, and then the shooters were charged a match/entry fee. These fees went back into the range for upkeep, but it was never enough.

And, most IPSC/PPC shooters NEVER spent a dollar in our store, to buy anything related to their sport (guns, gear, bullets, primers, targets, etc.). They would shop around for the cheapest deal, and buy elsewhere, often as a group, unless they got an "IPSC discount" :rolleyes:. Fair enough. But, give enough discounts, and enough free range use, and pretty soon the range is history. And, that's what happened. Store goes broke, range gets neglected/shutdown, and no one has a place to shoot. So, good luck getting free access anywhere (unless you to want to volunteer your time working there ;)).
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We are fortunate at TSE to have a lot of the IPSC members as members at TSE.

So I gotta ask, were you one of the guys who worked for TFL?
 
One question I have is why were the members of the PPC & IPSC leagues not members of the Grange club ?? A number were at one time then did not renew .
Perhaps they had very good reasons and perhaps those reasons should have been discussed with them instead of just giving simply giving them the boot .

IMO, I see no good business reason to turn 100 plus potential members & customers into annoyed ex customers.
 
colinjw said:
One question I have is why were the members of the PPC & IPSC leagues not members of the Grange club ?? A number were at one time then did not renew .
Perhaps they had very good reasons and perhaps those reasons should have been discussed with them instead of just giving simply giving them the boot .

IMO, I see no good business reason to turn 100 plus potential members & customers into annoyed ex customers.
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they are likely club members at different clubs/ranges... I would not join a range to just shoot a few matches a year,....if this was a requirement I would have 9 memberships across NB and NS. WHat dO I know, I am way out east. public forums
 
I read a lot of concern and justifiably, but lets see what JR and TSE can bring to the table, it all sounds like in the end it should work out well, the only thing that they will have to realize is that Ontario is not Alberta and the CFO is very strict here, but it will work out well I think.
 
colinjw said:
One question I have is why were the members of the PPC & IPSC leagues not members of the Grange club ?? A number were at one time then did not renew .
Perhaps they had very good reasons and perhaps those reasons should have been discussed with them instead of just giving simply giving them the boot .

IMO, I see no good business reason to turn 100 plus potential members & customers into annoyed ex customers.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. If they were members and chose not to renew their memberships (before any management changes), then the new rules would likely not be the reason. They chose the cheap route of not getting a membership and then using the facility without paying enough to cover the operating costs. This while also taking up space that actual members were looking to use.
If they chose not to pay, why should the facility be sorry to see them go?

Look, if I sell items at less than my cost, and then one day decide I need to raise the prices because I need to make a profit, I will certainly loose customers. However, unless they are willing to pay a fair price, they are not the customers I need.

And again for the record, no league has been banned. The only change is that league nights are for Grange members only. If leagues wish to run competitions or rent the facility for some type of activity, they are more than welcome to do so. Since apparently 100s of shooters belong to other clubs nearby, it should be no problem at all to have the league nights held at these other ranges. However, I suspect that these other ranges with the low cost memberships are not indoor ranges, and therefore get a pretty good deal out of their membership sales. All winter shooting is done at Target Sports for a pitance that does not cover actual range costs.
 
locking this thread as everyone has had their say and nothing new is going to be added. It's just going to go around and around and around.
Please do not post any new topics on this until such time as new developments have happened and can be reported on.
 
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