Great ballistic test from Norma

Ardent said:
The .270 Winchester’s reputation was build upon soft, lazily constructed cup and cores from an era where bonded was still a corporate word that had nothing to do with bullets, launched with relatively unimpressive SD and high speed. It’s one of the most cited cartridges amongst guides as resulting in the least walking, and reduction of nasty recoveries, including our own WhyNot?. The Partition just adds reliability to that recipe, a quickly disrupting, soft bullet with the added benefit of a backup plan. I personally couldn’t distinguish the Partition from the Accubond in field performance, and many clients packed Accubonds.

I remain a mono user, due to my concerns about lead in meat. But I can’t deny the effect of a good Nosler at speed. I sometimes get interested in the thought of trying to make a mono on the lathe for experimenting Walter Hog style that disrupts much more quickly, and fragments more flexibly than the shattering of CEBs. Maybe one quiet winter.
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Happy experimenting! Hope it works out!! Would love to hear more about it though!

My philosophy has so far been like yours. Drive a 100-110gr mono as fast as you want to and get it done. Although I don't mind the heavier but softer ones either, like an LRX.

DGY said:
I was thinking the same!
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Hard to imagine a plain jane bullet in the same place doesn't lay them out just like that eh?
 
I can see moose hide at near 1/2” thick could tear the jackets off relatively frangible bullets that would be ideal shot through a deer’s hide.
 
Bullet construction will never be a substitute for good shooting/shot placement. Ribs and and hide don’t stop soft bullets ime. They may initiate fragmentation but often these fragments will kill quicker than a single hole burrowing through the far side. It gets complicated when the fragments end up hitting non vital parts but even then damage is worse then a single hole punched through the same. I hunt with both and get runners and bang flops either way. It doesn’t matter as dead is dead. Poor shot placement is common unfortunately. Don’t rule out shooting it again if you’re given the chance.
 
Buckmastr said:
Bullet construction will never be a substitute for good shooting/shot placement. Ribs and and hide don’t stop soft bullets ime. They may initiate fragmentation but often these fragments will kill quicker than a single hole burrowing through the far side. It gets complicated when the fragments end up hitting non vital parts but even then damage is worse then a single hole punched through the same. I hunt with both and get runners and bang flops either way. It doesn’t matter as dead is dead. Poor shot placement is common unfortunately. Don’t rule out shooting it again if you’re given the chance.
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2 weeks ago I would've agreed with you on the soft bullet thing, but this is exactly what I saw last week with the moose. Shot placements were fine, except arguably the first 2 that were high near the spine. Once could be a fluke of some sort but all 5 shots performed strangely. The broadside behind the shoulder shot just didn't get past ribs. Not even a piece of it. 0%. Lots of damage under the hide and outside the ribs though. I'm not really sure what I could've done differently here besides use a different bullet. Or maybe should've used my 308 with 180 powerpoints that worked just fine for the last 25 years on many other hunts haha.

Completely agree about shooting again though. That's the only reason we recovered him. Hands down the weirdest thing I've experienced on a hunt.
 
Man it sounds like maybe inconsistent manufacturing, you think? With the way they performed well in the past for you guys then all of a sudden started coming unglued like that.
 
Joel said:
Man it sounds like maybe inconsistent manufacturing, you think? With the way they performed well in the past for you guys then all of a sudden started coming unglued like that.
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It's possible. They're certainly accurate and the velocity is consistent. This is just regular factory precision hunter ammo though so I can't imagine this is Hornady's expected behaviour with it. It was a different gun, different calibre, different speed that worked well for me before so it's hard to say what's going on. I have a whole bunch of 175 ELD-X bullets I was planning to handload for this rifle. Maybe I'll do some experimenting at lower velocities or something with them. I'm switching to Barnes 150 TTSX though.
 
Jon87 said:
2 weeks ago I would've agreed with you on the soft bullet thing, but this is exactly what I saw last week with the moose. Shot placements were fine, except arguably the first 2 that were high near the spine. Once could be a fluke of some sort but all 5 shots performed strangely. The broadside behind the shoulder shot just didn't get past ribs. Not even a piece of it. 0%. Lots of damage under the hide and outside the ribs though. I'm not really sure what I could've done differently here besides use a different bullet. Or maybe should've used my 308 with 180 powerpoints that worked just fine for the last 25 years on many other hunts haha.

Completely agree about shooting again though. That's the only reason we recovered him. Hands down the weirdest thing I've experienced on a hunt.
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I had the same thing happen to me with Sierra 6.5mm SPBT 140's GK's at modest velocity on a couple bucks. First shot dropped the buck with a shoulder shot- got up and ran, needed follow ups. After inspecting what happened, two shots literally came apart on hide/fur. Same with the other buck: a hard quartering shot, bullet took a big chuck of flesh and couldn't penetrate into the vitals. A chase and follow up was needed to put it down. That was the last time I've used those specific bullets. I'm certain it was a batch of lemons, but a couple times to many is enough for me.

Quality control could be a hit/miss thus giving odd results from time to time. So hearing about your experience is believable.
 
If I experienced this type of bullet performance, I’d section a bullet looking for answers. What happened to the lead core? Vaporized on the hide?? Situations I can’t easily envision.
 
Buckmastr said:
If I experienced this type of bullet performance, I’d section a bullet looking for answers. What happened to the lead core? Vaporized on the hide?? Situations I can’t easily envision.
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I doubt the lead vaporized, but I didn't find any of it. The jackets were easy to find though. That's not a bad idea sectioning a bullet. Maybe I'll pull a round apart and do that.
 
I had it happen with blue box 270 130s on a black bear around 15 m from me. Perfect broadside shot, toooons of blood. Did not penetrate the ribs, at least not as a single projectile. Core gone fragments of jacket. Follow up shot facing onward ~50 yards after much tracking broke humerus penetrated to vitals.

Didn't put me off to the 270 at all. I have no explanation but there seem to be some issues with bullet construction and that speed.

I'd still agree with Ardent based off my experience with deer and the 243. Soft (but not too soft, whatever that means) cup and core bullets and high velocities give dramatic results.

Honestly I have had great results with 250 and 200 grain interlock 338 bullets at middle of the road to "fast" 338 velocities wm and Speer hot cores in various chamberings. I use bonded bullets now (woodleighs) but I think we talk down on cup and cores in standard velocity rounds a lot when they are plain effective for those who spend less time on the web than we do
 
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Weird. A bear is probably the softest of all big game creatures. To have that happen, even at such close distance, is a head scratcher
 
It was a two year old too. Those rounds shot very well in my A7. I took a deer quartering away at ~200 with them (presumably same lot, small town store) and it went through and away into the nether.

Small sample size as well, but these are the things that cause our less logical minds to renounce certain bullets etc.

My next bear that year was with a 225 338 em bonded bear claw. 200 and a bit yards. Right through the heart, best shot I've ever taken on a game animal. That doesn't relate to this thread I just like bragging

Edit: two year old not yearling
 
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I'm my case the wound area was bruised and peppered in lead on the first buck, the second buck,had lots of damage aswell (sign of rapid expansion). I don't have answers to why and how ? But I suspect manufacturing issues at hand.
 
In my experience, there is no medium that compares to a living breathing animal. Big game animals can be real hard on a bullet. Deer included. Even when shot correctly. Unfortunately most of that is learned the hard way. Shoot any bullet long enough and it quite likely will do something that will make you scratch your head.
 
Weird indeed! I never experienced anything like and never heard of something like that!! I mean so many people are shooting federal blue box with great results!
 
The key part would be "as a single projectile" lots of shallow damage. The blood trail was something to see.

I did not take apart the blood shot meat. The second shot was not perfect by any means, it caused a lot of damage from expansion bone etc but no bullet was recovered besides jacket fragments from the first shot in the (broken) rib

DG did your jacket stay intact?


Despite its rep as cheap crap blue box shoots well and with this exception kills well too. A quick Google shows some other unlucky customers though. Varying degrees of penetration but consistent reports of shrapnel
 
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The only bullet I recover that lost its core was a 286gn nosler partition shot at a moose at 106m, the bullet traveled over 3 feet! I didn’t find the core, but the mushroomed jacket attached to the partition rear end! People told me that is was the way partition worked at close range! Thanks he 8mm 200gn accubond a shot my moose with this year didn’t get recovered, it went straight through breaking a rib on the way in and one on the way out! When I say never heard of anything like that I’m referring at the no penetration part, not the bullets staying or not staying together sorry!
 
Buckmastr said:
A bullet carries too much energy to completely dissipate in 2” of soft stuff imo
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So please, tell us, never had a bullet fail? Ever seen a bullet fail or do something less than you expected?

Or do they all do the same thing all the time? All animals stand broad side waiting to be shot through the heart/lungs?
 
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