Handloading .455 for Webley MK I
- Thread starter GreenBob
- Start date
Mine is a .45acp, same barrel and cyl. dimentions as your .455 original, with a cut off the rear of cyl. to allow acp's in moon clips.
First suggestion would be to slug your bore and cyl. throats, so as to size bullets to fit properly, allowing them to shoot accurately and not lead the bore.
Some tighter throated cylinder mk1's will work best with the original soft cast 265 grain HB round nose bullets.(jethunter has 'em for sale)
Some, more open throated cyl's., will shoot well with .452-.454" sized semi wadcutters. Your gun will tell you it's own preferences.
Important is that bullets are cast of soft lead.
Having a chronograph is a good idea when working loads for antique revolvers. They operate at around 12000 psi max pressure, with little tolerence for remaining intact, healthy, and unstrained at very much more than their inherent pressure limit. A chrono keeps things from unknowingly going over the top on you.
Mine thrives on soft cast .454" 235 grain SWC's cast from a older H&G mold, at 700fps or so. Many hundreds have been fired over the years, with absolutely no discernable wear, battering, or looseness to my prized Webley.
Powder wise, I've settled on Unique and 2400 for use in both my antique revolvers.
More often 2400 gets the nod if I'm using higher volume trimmed back .45 win mag brass in the Webley, and is used full time in the .44 special Reichs. 2400 is bulky, so that the dreaded double charge ka-boom cannot happen, and is so linear in it's progressive pressure increases as to always be predictable, .. and is nice and soft on the old iron. It is very dirty at these low pressures though, leaving much unburned powder laying in the bore. This has not been a problem for me.
Unique is the old standby for many of us, with 4 or 5 grain charges commonly being used behind normal weight bullets. It burns clean and often yields good accuracy. Unique can get a little spikey on the pressure as one works up though, and double charges are possible in many cartridge cases ... one must inspect each and every single one before seating the bullet.
A fairly heavy crimp has worked best for me.
Your going to enjoy shooting your Webley!.
First suggestion would be to slug your bore and cyl. throats, so as to size bullets to fit properly, allowing them to shoot accurately and not lead the bore.
Some tighter throated cylinder mk1's will work best with the original soft cast 265 grain HB round nose bullets.(jethunter has 'em for sale)
Some, more open throated cyl's., will shoot well with .452-.454" sized semi wadcutters. Your gun will tell you it's own preferences.
Important is that bullets are cast of soft lead.
Having a chronograph is a good idea when working loads for antique revolvers. They operate at around 12000 psi max pressure, with little tolerence for remaining intact, healthy, and unstrained at very much more than their inherent pressure limit. A chrono keeps things from unknowingly going over the top on you.
Mine thrives on soft cast .454" 235 grain SWC's cast from a older H&G mold, at 700fps or so. Many hundreds have been fired over the years, with absolutely no discernable wear, battering, or looseness to my prized Webley.
Powder wise, I've settled on Unique and 2400 for use in both my antique revolvers.
More often 2400 gets the nod if I'm using higher volume trimmed back .45 win mag brass in the Webley, and is used full time in the .44 special Reichs. 2400 is bulky, so that the dreaded double charge ka-boom cannot happen, and is so linear in it's progressive pressure increases as to always be predictable, .. and is nice and soft on the old iron. It is very dirty at these low pressures though, leaving much unburned powder laying in the bore. This has not been a problem for me.
Unique is the old standby for many of us, with 4 or 5 grain charges commonly being used behind normal weight bullets. It burns clean and often yields good accuracy. Unique can get a little spikey on the pressure as one works up though, and double charges are possible in many cartridge cases ... one must inspect each and every single one before seating the bullet.
A fairly heavy crimp has worked best for me.
Your going to enjoy shooting your Webley!.
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- Tucson, Arizona
There is a good reason Webley bullets are hollow based. If you measure the front end of the cylinder mouth, you will find it is undersized compared to the bore diameter The base of the bullet expands to fill the bore once it leaves the cylinder.
Bumping this up here to add this. Go find yourself a Lee minie ball mold. They have the proper hollow base and the perfect diameter. Here http://leeprecision.com/mold-454-298-m.html
.454 and 298 grains. A wee bit heavy, but hollow base and the right diameter. I can look up the load I used if you want, I found it online and fired a bunch of rounds with zero problems.
.454 and 298 grains. A wee bit heavy, but hollow base and the right diameter. I can look up the load I used if you want, I found it online and fired a bunch of rounds with zero problems.
Hi guys!
Sorry for digging up an old thread ))
Has anyone tried Starline 455 Casull brass for Webley Mark 2 revolvers?
I hear folks using 45 Colt and 45 S&W Schofield brass cases to reload for Webley revolvers but never heard if 455 Casull brass will work.
Please advice.
Sorry for digging up an old thread ))
Has anyone tried Starline 455 Casull brass for Webley Mark 2 revolvers?
I hear folks using 45 Colt and 45 S&W Schofield brass cases to reload for Webley revolvers but never heard if 455 Casull brass will work.
Please advice.
I am going to assume you mean 454 Casull. And the answer is probably not very well. Once you shorten the Casull cartridge, you will have to resize it. The Webley cartridges have a slight taper, as do the cylinders. Then, you'll have to shorten it and ream out the inside of the Casull brass to get it thin enough to seat a bullet for the Webley. Having passed through all of that, you might have some extraction issues because the Casull is (and I had to read twice to believe this) a narrower diameter rim than the .455.
Same for mine .... and Hornady 455 MKI brass
Thanks for the reply.
I did not realized Webley Mark 2 cylinders have a slight taper.
And looks like 454 Casull brass wall is too thick meant to withstand high pressures.
So the only brass that fits reloading for Webley in original .455 is 45 S&W Schofield as it has .477 Neck and Base diameter?
You can use cut-down .45 Colt brass, but you will have to shave the rim thinner ( - obviously, from the 'front' of the cartridge - ) - finding brass for Webleys is a major pain. The Webley rim is very thin (don't remember the #'s off the top of my head; I found them on Wikipedia), and my Mk VI will NOT feed if the rim is too thick.
If you plan to shoot it some, I recommend coughing-up the dough and buying a couple hundred Fiocchis; that way, once your press is set-up, you never have to change the shell holder (can't use the .455 holder for the Colts), primer sizes (Fiocchis take SP, everything else takes LP), &c &c &c...
OH AND - since Fiocchi still sells ammo for it, your Webley is NOT an antique...
Trail Boss is also a good powder for Webleys; I used 3.5gr with a 230gr bullet in my Mk VI. Trail Boss is dirty in a revolver; I originally used 3.2gr when shooting a 255gr bullet (FB SWC or RNFP), but there just wasn't enough pressure to ignite all the powder and it was very dirty, so I went with the 3.5gr load. You might try magnum primers if you're using Trail Boss.
3.5gr gave me ~655 fps through the 6" barrel with the 230gr bullet, and 3.2gr gave me ~625 fps with the 255gr bullet. And Trail Boss is a very "big" powder; there's no chance of putting a double charge into the shorter Mk II case.
- A QUICK PLUG for any Webley fans in the room; Webley & Scott are looking for 1,000 people willing to put their names on the line and pay $100 up-front, and they will put the Mk VI back in production
If you plan to shoot it some, I recommend coughing-up the dough and buying a couple hundred Fiocchis; that way, once your press is set-up, you never have to change the shell holder (can't use the .455 holder for the Colts), primer sizes (Fiocchis take SP, everything else takes LP), &c &c &c...
OH AND - since Fiocchi still sells ammo for it, your Webley is NOT an antique...
Trail Boss is also a good powder for Webleys; I used 3.5gr with a 230gr bullet in my Mk VI. Trail Boss is dirty in a revolver; I originally used 3.2gr when shooting a 255gr bullet (FB SWC or RNFP), but there just wasn't enough pressure to ignite all the powder and it was very dirty, so I went with the 3.5gr load. You might try magnum primers if you're using Trail Boss.
3.5gr gave me ~655 fps through the 6" barrel with the 230gr bullet, and 3.2gr gave me ~625 fps with the 255gr bullet. And Trail Boss is a very "big" powder; there's no chance of putting a double charge into the shorter Mk II case.
- A QUICK PLUG for any Webley fans in the room; Webley & Scott are looking for 1,000 people willing to put their names on the line and pay $100 up-front, and they will put the Mk VI back in production
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Not quite. Starline has done runs of .455 made from their .45 Colt AKA .45 Long Colt brass. They turn the rims down from the bullet end of the brass with a lathe or spindle to thin them, and shorten the case as well. I don't know if they thin the case wall at the mouth being that it's a thin walled old black powder cartridge, but they do seat reasonably well. It doesn't cure the narrow diameter rim, however, just makes it so a Webley will close on it. I have a batch of 100 of them, and I despise them because about a third of the time they don't extract properly. Jury's out on whether how far they bite in with the machine tool affects the case head. I don't shoot them frequently enough or at high pressures to see any failure or stress. My fallback is Unique for a slow burn.
What someone really needs to do if they want good .455 that extracts right and fits is make up a heavy steel swage block with the rim shape of .44 and the cylinder, and swage the thick .45 Colt rim down to thinner and wide.
I made up the brass for mine about 20 years ago from a batch of .45 Schofield. It was a bit tedious doing the lathe work, but worked out very well; I did shorten the brass just enough so that it all dropped into the cylinders without issue. So my brass is way longer than spec, but it is a handloading proposition for one handgun, so whatever.
After that I saw loaded ammo and I think I have seen Starline offer it as well. Would have gone that route if it had been available at the time. But, with 200 cases, I am probably good for life at this point. I don't shoot the old boy too much, just once in a while for nostalgia's sake.
I did get the RCBS hollowbase mould specifically for the Webley. It was a bit on the spendy side but I think it was well worth it given the cylinder/forcing cone issue already mentioned.
After that I saw loaded ammo and I think I have seen Starline offer it as well. Would have gone that route if it had been available at the time. But, with 200 cases, I am probably good for life at this point. I don't shoot the old boy too much, just once in a while for nostalgia's sake.
I did get the RCBS hollowbase mould specifically for the Webley. It was a bit on the spendy side but I think it was well worth it given the cylinder/forcing cone issue already mentioned.
There's a rumor that .45 Colt brass from Remington doesn't need inside reaming, maybe because RCBS say to use that brand with their Colt to Webley forming die.
I'm not so sure but since the few R-P pieces I had got "lost" years ago I cannot check them again. It's funny how that kind of info can remain elusive wit all the people who have done it...
I've got W-W, Sellier & B. and one Starline and they are all too thick in the inside, even for Mk1 length. Starline Schofield cases have been said to be O.K. on Gunboards.
I'm not so sure but since the few R-P pieces I had got "lost" years ago I cannot check them again. It's funny how that kind of info can remain elusive wit all the people who have done it...
I've got W-W, Sellier & B. and one Starline and they are all too thick in the inside, even for Mk1 length. Starline Schofield cases have been said to be O.K. on Gunboards.
