JDForBrkFst
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Yep. Hence the, "Sh** happens" part of my last post. I wasn't arguing that. My point was, and remains that kill order was wrong.
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Yep. Hence the, "Sh** happens" part of my last post. I wasn't arguing that. My point was, and remains that kill order was wrong.
In fact they did issue that exact order. In Italy the German Command issued an order that all Allied soldiers captured who were in possession of a 'long knive' as they called the F&S fighting knife, were to be shot.... I presume this also included the v42. For the record the F&S knives were not just acquired by SAS or LRDG; some Canadian personnel possessed them as result of specific training they were sent on.
If your grandfather had taken the train south -- he could have returned with my father and the First Canadian Division -- they didnt leave until almost 2 weeks after Dieppe - when they discovered that they were a) in Vichy France and b) that there were no longer any organized Allied Forces to support. A small piece of Canadian History. OTOH he might have hitched a ride in my great uncle's small sail boat that he accompanied the 'civilian' 'armada' with until they got to Dieppe ... then he took a left turn to pick up my great Aunt farther up the coast... and her pet bird FFS!
JDForBrkFst
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I wasn't saying that they didn't. My point is that orders from the upper echlons to kill surrendered combatants is wrong. I'm starting to wonder if anyone actually read my posts?
ht tp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189604/The-untold-brutality-D-Day-Antony-Beevor-carnage-suffered-beaches-Normandy.html
... and one more time, but sh** happens.
JDForBrkFst
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So you jumped into it part way and made assumptions on my point without knowing it? Ok then.
Ah yes , Herr Hitler's Kommandobefehl (Command Order). It was issued personally by Hitler on 18 October 1942 stating that all Allied commandos encountered by German forces in Europe and Africa should be killed immediately without trial, even in proper uniforms or if they attempted to surrender. He really was an a$$hat. That order was despised by alot of officers and seen as dishonorable. One such example is what happened to the British 2nd Parachute Battalion and Lieutenant-Colonel John Dutton Frost in Africa. The Italians were gonna mow them down when the FJ's came along and told them they would be next. Not that the FJ's were quire boys (far from it), but those particular individuals did the right thing that day.
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JDForBrkFst
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.....well .... Yeah...??? Say....are you a newbie to this forum?
Lol, I hold people to my personal standard of conduct. I try and read everything before jumping into the controversial. As bad as people can be on here sometimes it's still better than the garbage conduct I see from the average citizen of this wonderful socialist utopia we live in.
'Mac' Macdonald who was with the SAS (had been LRDG) told me that he had been air dropped into Italy and had to turn to a 'safe' house. The 'partisan' then promptly turned him in the Italian military. The Italian military held him briefly during which their OC informed him that he was required to advise German officials of his capture and that they were on the way to pick him up....as Mac told the story...the Italian then said he could expect to be shot because of his knife. Afterwhich the OC told Mac it was dinner time and he and his troops were hungry...so he informed Mac he was to be 'on good behaviour' and not try to escape while they went to dinner! Mac said the OC left, the guard lit a cigarette....then just wandered off.....and Mac 'PUFO'd at the high port! ....as I recall the return trip involved a submarine. I was pretty wide eyed with all of this story and think I gasped something stupid like: 'christ werent you afraid?!?!'...his answer was..."not then! But NOW when I think about I wake up sweating!"
Your late Father in Law deserves everyones respect. He survived odds and circumstances unparalled in peoples wildest imaginations or unearned chest thumpings. Ruhe in Frieden.
No, his sentence was commuted because faced with the Soviets old Nazis were considered useful, and since more than a few Nazis found it convenient to slightly alter their National Socialism into plain socialism and get on board with the Soviets, it was not a trend we could afford to encourage. No one seems to remember the League of German Officers and the National Committee for a Free Germany that the Soviets organized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Committee_for_a_Free_Germany, not to mention all those millions of German communists who transformed themselves into Nazis and then back into communists again.
The SS began murdering British prisoners in 1940 and kept on doing it right through, civilians...no one even has a clue. The good old Wehrmacht killed their share, thousands of Italians prisoners on the Greek Islands for example and that's just one example. The happy paras on Crete smiling as they shoot down the civilian hostages. Yeh, what great fun it all was! The massacres, rapes, civilians as human shields, false white flags, torched towns, slave labor deportations...it was all on display as early as 1914 in Belgium.
The damage is done now though, two tries at "world mastery or downfall" have made the downfall of the West pretty much a done deal. Germany should be officially islamic within a few generations so have fun with that. How people so intelligent in some ways, can be so effing stupid in other ways is one of the eternal mysteries other races will perhaps ponder in future as they congratulate themselves on their good fortune in having had their work done for them.
Meyer was just another thug from the same old mold, casual killer one day and all prim and proper "hoch, hoch" rectitude the next day for a different audience. Someone should have bayoneted the f--ker and saved us the expense of giving him three square meals a day while Europe was full of DPs and wreckage the money would have been better spent on.
Maybe I'm missing something here but why the paratroopers?
American space program was built on guys that under different circumstances, would have been charged with war crimes.
Grizz
"Battle of the Bulge" - that Ardennes counteroffensive was started with some German troops in U.S. uniforms and equipment, led by English speakers, getting in and behind the Americans by subterfuge to seize key points (bridges, crossroads) to ensure the easy advance of their main forces and to delay and obstruct American reactions. It soon became apparent that these deception methods had resulted in them taking prisoners they couldn't handle them properly and that they killed them after capture.
Waffen SS and paratroops were prominent among the disguised units "playing dirty." They were highly motivated and more used to assignments that involved working in small groups behind enemy lines without immediate friendly support.
No, Allied generals had put in a good word at his trial but his sentence was commuted to time served by the German Government on return to their jurisdiction.
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