Hi Rick,
The HSS inserts are for general turning and threading, not for making specialized cutting tools for special circumstances. You don't regrind a perfectly good insert to different shape but they are very simple to sharpen with a wet stone by laying them face down.
Anyone who operates a lathe or milling machine should know the basics for making a tool with correct angles and relief cuts. But it's not a have to thing anymore for the home hobbyist. If carbide inserts are fine to use for general turning, then HSS inserts that cost half or 1/3 as much should be accepted as well.
For Gods sake guys, I just posted a set of tools for guys to have a choice of tooling. Not everyone today is interested in working in a factory or shop and serve an apprenticeship for years.
The use of HSS has been around for a very long time. Technology is and can be a good thing. All of you advocate carbide but you also know it's limitations. Until a year ago, I didn't even know that HSS inserts existed. How many of you did, before I posted about them? If grinding a tool blank is imperative knowledge before being able to operate a simple lathe, then knowing how to harness a horse to a carriage should be required before being allowed to drive a car. Time and technology moves on.
HSS inserts are just another option for guys. Nothing more. They won't save the whales or stop global warming but you experienced machinists are so set in your ways that there is absolutely no room for anything new.
I use all different types of tooling. Carbide and HSS blanks and HSS inserts. If you took the time to watch any of my videos you would know that I use everything available. I'm not stuck in the 1920's. with a treadle lathe.
So far, during all these conversations and posts, I haven't seen anyone offer to teach anyone anything. The experience pool here is very deep but it's got ice on top of it.
I've got over 125 guys, who have visited this forum, who have contacted me privately or called me at home, who actually want to learn. Some have scheduled time to come visit next month. While some of you keep talking about how much you know, and won't teach. These guys will be learning for free.
As of midnight tonight I will delete all my posts on this forum, since there are no open minds here willing to look at technology and move into the next century. 50 years of learning a trade won't help the next generation of machinists if it's an old boys club. It's much like Target shooting in Canada, it's a dying sport because of the age of the shooters and no young guys getting involved.
If I have offended anyone at anytime with my postings, Let me appologize right now. It was never my intent.
For the guys who have contacted me, my chambering video will be completed late next month and is yours for free from my website.
Bob Pastor
Gobles, Michigan
Geez Bob.
Sorry you feel that way. Really. But yeah. I really do think that a fella should figure out how to grind a tool, as he learns how to use them.
Nothing quite like grinding your own, to learn what makes a useful cutting tool, vs. what does not. Further to that, a guy that knows HOW to grind his own, will acquire the knowledge he needs to recognize when a cutting edge does not work for him, and the skills to do something about it.
Your statement about horses and carriages before cars is just, well, silly. As is the general idea that it should have become optional to learn how to grind a tool. Esp. after you outright said this "Anyone who operates a lathe or milling machine should know the basics for making a tool with correct angles and relief cuts."
That statement alone, is what I have been trying to convey.
Now, I don't have any idea how many guys you have taught to grind tools. I've taught some. Enough to know that there are some basics that I try to give to every person I teach, to allow them the options when the job requires the use of a tool shape or size that is not ready at hand in a pre-ground form. Real basics, A sharp edge, reliefs to allow the edge to work, and the basics of rake angles.
I have issues with the foolishness of claiming that grinding tools of HSS, is so out of date, yet buying them already ground, of the exact same material, somehow makes one part of the "new' era. Huh? No, it makes one a customer of the grinder, that is all.
I have magazine articles on use of carbide tooling, from the 1940's. It's not really new either.
Now, on running around erasing your posts, well, apparently you weren't all that concerned about providing useful information. Kinda drama queen-ish, to announce your intent like that too. It's selfish behaviour. Gonna do that everywhere you run into folks that don't automatically parrot along to the idea that those particular tools are the greatest thing since sliced bread for a beginner? You'll rapidly run out of places to post.
Yep. Knew about HSS inserts for the last couple or more years. There have been a couple of the regular advertisers in Home Shop Machinist magazine, that have been offering them up. Never saw fit to order them, because they were priced comparably with carbide tooling and toolholders that would not lock a fella in to a particular supplier. That the supplier of those inserts was in the States, and I am not, was a further disincentive, as shipping and taxes add considerably to the cost of resupply. HSS insert tools have been around for a very long time, Bob. I've seen advertisements for them for tooling for shapers, as well as for lathes, dating back, well, way before our times. Sets have occasionally popped up for sale on Practicalmachinist, and have been discussed there. They get bought by guys that want something neat or different, to go with their antique machine tools.
I'd much rather spend the money on some ground finish carbide inserts, than on HSS ones. I know at least, with the carbide, I can run them at a reasonably slow speed and still get a decent surface finish. I can also crank up the speeds and still cut, which you cannot do with those HSS inserts.
For what it's worth, I got in to machining as a hobby, starting out with a WW Pattern watchmakers lathe, using hand held tools for most of my cutting. I moved up to a Myford ML7, then a Super7, which I still have. I also own and use an Aamco 7 inch shaper, and a Centec 2A milling machine. A positive plethora of capability! If I must, I am able to manufacture working cutting tools for all these, from plain high carbon steel. A HSS blank, though, is only a couple dollars, so is my preferred choice.
I learned a great deal of what I had to, from books as the ones I mentioned earlier, and reading magazines, such as Home Shop Machinist, or Model Engineer Magazine, a British publication that has been in the hobby metalwork side for over 100 years. Lots of great info in those, and the authors of those articles were near geniuses at making a person with few resources, believe that he had the capability to accomplish a lot with little. Worth checking out, if you are not familiar with them. the entire series of "Workshop" books sold by Busy Bee, is mostly information from these authors.
Networking with other hobby machinists allowed me that much greater access to experiences. The ability to have hands on, to see what can be done, and to be able to discuss problems, back before Al Gore invented the Internet, was a huge boost. To have guys that had actual industrial experience, that knew what worked and what did not, amongst these folk, was also a boon.
There is a great group of guys in Regina, another in Edmonton, that are about as close as one can find to a club, without dues or membership, as one can find. Anyone is welcome at their meetings, and the folks there are friendly. I know of a live steam club in Montreal, and another in Winnipeg. There is a group outside of Calgary, as well. Tracking down the local version is well worth while!
I am lucky enough to be working now in a well equipped, almost entirely manual, machine shop. I get to give familiarization training, to a steady stream of apprentice trainees, almost all of whom, come to the table with no machining background. From that experience, I can tell you with some authority, that no matter how clear a fella thinks he has been, or how well laid out the information, someone will find a new and creative way to do it differently. Some just demonstrate that they should not be machinists, but most pick up the skills and can do basic work accurately, very quickly. I do not believe these tools would be of great benefit to them. They may believe so, though. Anything but to have to learn to grind a tool!
But doing this work professionally, is a recent thing, relative to my hobby involvement.
I firmly believe that those tools are a good tool for an intermediate or advanced hobbyist. Not any better than buying carbide, for a new guy.
So, Bob. Your call. You can participate and contribute, or you can not. Tucking in and running when folks disagree with you isn't going to get you far, and sarcastic or smartass comments, to support your side of the discussion aren't either.
These are MY opinions. I do believe them, or I would not bother to support them.
Cheers
Trev
