These guys.
Their rifles apparently have over 40k rounds through them. Seem to be doing well for a highly tuned race gun...
[youtube]aZrFIcWzSEo[/youtube]
As for LE/military, who cares? Seriously.
Just because some bureaucrat got his palms greased and a manufacturer's gear got adopted for use, does it make it the be all end all of platforms?
Seeing as this is a civilian forum, realizing which rifles are reliable for the tactical paper punching we do, is relevant.
That range of rifles is much broader than just 100% milspec.
If people want to buy what the seal team whatever is using and run around in their basement making pew pew noises, all the power to them. At that point you are buying gear for a totally different reason.
And you likely never will because that's a waste of a perfectly good gun and ammo.
My first hand experience is this:
my JP rifle is approaching 10K rounds.
I have had absolutely zero gun induced failures.
I have also not replaced a single part on my rifle other than an extractor spring, and probably didn't even need to do that. Did it because I happened to have a spare and figured after 6k rounds it might need it.
Gas rings are still tight and hardly any wear anywhere other than the slight rubbing of the anodizing in the upper receiver from the BCG.
The coatings they use significantly reduce wear.
The type of "tests" in the links above don't mean much in our world.
Most people reading these forums won't see 5K through their rifle let alone 30k, and will definitely be cleaned more frequently.
I have to strongly disagree here.
While the price may be high relative to an entry level platform, as with most things in life, you get what you pay for.
Difficult to set up and maintain?
Here's what I did:
Close off gas block and then open it half turn at a time until the bolt would lock back on an empty mag.
Open half turn more to ensure reliability with different types of ammo and lock it in place.
5 minutes, Done.
Maintenance, I occasionally wipe down the inside of the receivers with a paper towel, and re lube.
scrape off carbon buildup from the back of the bolt and clean out the lugs on the barrel extension.
Once a year I run a bore snake through the barrel just for fun.
The rifle is still super accurate and shoots soft.
Perfect for punching holes in paper which is all we can do with them here in Canada.
If a newbie can't manage to do at least that, then I have to ask who dresses them in the morning because I doubt they could properly do that either.
Long term reliability, as I mentioned, my rifle has a decent number of rounds though it, been full of dirt and sand and still run perfectly.
My friends in the US who compete more frequently than I do have 2-3 times the round count I do and their rifles are still running strong with no issues.
At the end of the day, people will buy what they deem best for them based on intended use and budget.
As long as they are buying a rifle and getting out to shoot, its all good on my books.
We need as many people with ARs as possible.
Blindly preaching the gospel of milspec and saying anything other is somehow inferior, that's just nonsense.
The guy in the video above is nothing more than a competitor who shoots pest animals. The AR is and was designed as a service rifle, for shooting people, for defending life and nation. That is where it needs to excel, not on the range at a match and not as a pest control tool. If those who go into harms way aren't willing to choose your brand then I would say that speaks volumes. No one outside competitors use JP rifles, they're a race gun and nothing more. The benefits of mil spec guns was discussed above and it appears you missed that part. I don't care how few rounds others put through their guns, I don't really care how many rounds you put through your guns. I am concerned with tools that will work as advertised without fail and often without proper maintenance. If your rifle meets or exceeds mil spec then I'm confident you will have either many hundreds or many thousands of trouble free rounds to fire through it.
Setting up your gas block sounds simple. Here's what I did when I bought my AR's, all 6-10 I've had over the years... I loaded it, I shot it, I repeated those steps many times. I used different brands and weights of ammo and I have yet to have a rifle induced stoppage. I'm sure I paid a lot less for my rifles than you paid for your JP and I didn't have to set anything up.. So what does a guy gain by buying a boutique race gun? Caramel posted some nice groups from a gun designed for fighting. Someone else pointed out that for their type and SPEED of shooting, a highly accurate rifle wasn't necessary, and if you're into action shooting then this should be no surprise.
Did you read the article about filthy 14? The rifle has seen over 40,000 rounds with one cleaning and lots of lubrication. I strongly doubt your JP would survive as long. Someone mentioned the conditions for which most competitors shoot, ideal weather, minimal round count and minimal contact with dirt. I shoot matches as well, they are far from punishing on equipment(although sadly a lot of guns go down). Many who compete or shoot simply baby the sh*t out of their rifles, it's quite comical to watch.
I don't think people go out and buy what they deem most appropriate for their use and budget. People buy what's cheap because they haven't a clue what they need or want out of their equipment. There is no reason to buy a tuned or tuneable race gun for bench shooting right up to action event shooting. A quality USA made(or CC if you wish to over pay for a base rifle) stock AR with a quality optic will get the job done. Blowing the budget in the rifle and skimping on optics, ammo or training will not yield positive results.
Actually, this whole debate started because someone asserted that a race AR (like JP) can't hold a candle up to a milspec gun. As if milspec is the beacon of quality, reliability, durability, etc. The problem with this assertion was compounded when it was noted that the person making it didn't have any direct experience with JP rifles, so their argument was entirely theoretical.
My only point here is that I don't understand why people continuously leave out JP from the "high end" list. JP rifles are ultra reliable, even when abused and not maintained, are far more accurate than most others and are top notch quality by almost any AR standard.
I'll grant that JP tuned rifles may not be suitable for combat....but since when is that the only measure of durability and reliability?
As I posted above, mil spec is the standard, it is the only known standard for which any AR can be measured against whether that be equal to less than or greater than mil spec. The AR is a fighting rifle and is solely designed as such. If the mil spec standard is good enough for defending life then it definitely is good enough for shooting paper. I'm not saying there aren't quality guns that are not mil spec, because there most certainly are. I'm saying for the new guy getting into AR's a mil spec gun will give zero troubles and be a durable, reliable, quality rifle; and can be had for a fraction of the cost of a race gun or even a custom build.
I like my guns to work and work with minimal amount of bullsh*t. I see no logic or reason to buying any gun only to have to tinker with it to get it to run properly. Either it works out of the box or I'm not interested in laying down my hard earned money. I enjoy shooting, not fighting with equipment and tuning this or that. The easiest way to find guns and gear that create the least amount of headache is to select stuff that was/is designed to be used hard and for serious work(shooting people). I don't want a toy, I want a tool. The race gear is usually a headache and almost always more money than the base model it is derived from. Save your money and your patience and buy a tool.
TW25B
