Hk 416
- Thread starter Rich LPS
- Start date
I honestly love them, perhaps it's the metallic black coloring, they just look nice.
maybe changing your title from (industry expert) to (if it doesnt say KAC its not any good, however i am a rep for KAC so i am also horribly biased) should be in order....
I guess maybe there isnt enough room to write that....
HK is a fully committed firearms manufacturer, any time you say "the best" you will get
challenges and objections. There products are well respect and work.
Now don't bother to "chime in" on some of the failed projects, every company has them.
The 416 works and that's all that counts.
challenges and objections. There products are well respect and work.
Now don't bother to "chime in" on some of the failed projects, every company has them.
The 416 works and that's all that counts.
Soooooooo a guy with real world firearms knowlege is not aloud to have an opinion?????
I dont always agree with KevinB..... But when I do, I agree alot
i also agree with Kevin on several of his posts, but he will also take time out of his busy day of marketing KAC to discredit any competitiors that may threaten the sales of KAC products. KAC kool-aid tastes the same as H&K kool-aid, its just a different colour...and i will happily drink either, but both are overpriced. and yes ive used both companies products...
Starscream
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
You know SOCOM removed the 'high' reliability mag from service...
Piston guns are not my cup of tea, but I will say my early OTB 416's where stellar machines. I commented nothing more in this thread than the mag, which is an unmitigated piece of ####. The Germans had Magpul make a polymer mag for them (not the EMAG).
Piston guns are not my cup of tea, but I will say my early OTB 416's where stellar machines. I commented nothing more in this thread than the mag, which is an unmitigated piece of ####. The Germans had Magpul make a polymer mag for them (not the EMAG).
The HK mags, work great until you start training and dropping them, loaded or unloaded onto hard surfaces. The lips bend and then they aren't worth a damm.
For range use (in our neutered 5 round form) they are the best I've ever used, but I do baby them. The HK engineers underestimated the loaded weight of them and what would happen to them when dropped and stepped on repeatedly.
Let's get back on topic. What I'm interested in is the performance of the weapons systems. G36 and 416 have turned in incredible numbers in testing such as:
15 000 to 20 000 rounds in desert conditions without cleaning or any lube. I don't know of any other weapons that can match that. Is it necessary? I don't know, with a regular cleaning and maintenance schedule, probably not, but it is impressive even if unrealistic in field conditions.
The challenge is out, who (what company) out there can match those numbers?
Rich
For range use (in our neutered 5 round form) they are the best I've ever used, but I do baby them. The HK engineers underestimated the loaded weight of them and what would happen to them when dropped and stepped on repeatedly.
Let's get back on topic. What I'm interested in is the performance of the weapons systems. G36 and 416 have turned in incredible numbers in testing such as:
15 000 to 20 000 rounds in desert conditions without cleaning or any lube. I don't know of any other weapons that can match that. Is it necessary? I don't know, with a regular cleaning and maintenance schedule, probably not, but it is impressive even if unrealistic in field conditions.
The challenge is out, who (what company) out there can match those numbers?
Rich
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
The term "desert conditions" could be completely debatable. I mean one company's description of desert conditions is going to be way different from the others. No one could ever agree. I think it would be awesome to put those 2 rifles (HK416's and G36's) in a endurance trial together with the SG55X series. I think they would all compete comparatively, but it sure would be fun to watch it ll pay out.
Rich:
I assume you have seen Swiss Arms destructive testing of the SG55X rifles?
http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/
I have read (un-confirmed) that the only weapon system that could pass the Russian Izhmash sand testing, besides the AK, was the Swiss Arms guns. I'd like to the see the HK products go head to head with Swiss Arms and modern AK rifles in an abuse test.
Agreed, Arizona desert is not the same as Iraq or Afghanistan. Never the less, take the desert out of the equation, what system can go 15 to 20 K without cleaning or lubing?
Rich
Agreed, Arizona desert is not the same as Iraq or Afghanistan. Never the less, take the desert out of the equation, what system can go 15 to 20 K without cleaning or lubing?
Rich
And passed over by price.....of the system. The Swiss Army price used to be 1500 CF. For that price they could have bought 3 AR pattern rifles.
The Portuguese trials found the Swiss Arms rifles to be the best tested....passed over for the G36 due to the high price.....
Rich
The Portuguese trials found the Swiss Arms rifles to be the best tested....passed over for the G36 due to the high price.....
Rich
I'm no benchmark for a torture test, but I must say I have never experienced a malfunction in the several thousand rounds I've put through a number of G36's that I have owned. I've put far more rounds through all models of Swiss Arms rifles, and only ever had issue with my CQB with the 553 gas system... When shooting .223 the bolt sometimes didn't hold open after the last shot, when the gun was newish. Wasn't a problem with 5.56. After 1000 rounds the issue went away.
My question is why you guys aren't ripping into the dude in the photo with his front sight mounted at 3 o clock? SAOAFR all around lol.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...-hk416-the-gun-that-killed-bin-laden#fbIndex1
People say animals don't wear underpants, and that holds true, but this pic is proof that #### birds sometimes wear clown shoes.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...-hk416-the-gun-that-killed-bin-laden#fbIndex1
People say animals don't wear underpants, and that holds true, but this pic is proof that #### birds sometimes wear clown shoes.
Price wasn't the issue, the guys just couldn't quite get used to the mag release so went with fn's.
Like most contracts, decisions based on opinion.
The fn's worked fine.
I can tell you the swiss are absolutely without a doubt impressive in everyway.
From what I know I would take the sapr at 5 k. Over the mr308 at 1k. The tests were that impressive.
Like most contracts, decisions based on opinion.
The fn's worked fine.
I can tell you the swiss are absolutely without a doubt impressive in everyway.
From what I know I would take the sapr at 5 k. Over the mr308 at 1k. The tests were that impressive.
Often testing is broken down to 3 or 4 (or5)segments,
1)user testing down select. (after SME's have gotten baseline data)
2) endurance / reliability
3) environmental reliability.
4) User Operational testing (sometime part of 1)
5) lifecycle reliability / baseline. Taking the gun to the projected lifecycle of rounds and detailing part failures etc.
At some point in time ( and ideally throughout) a system integration check list needs to be done to ensure your 2k gun is not going to junk your added accessories (oh SCAR where art though, oh yeah breaking day sights, lasers and NV...)
an embarrassing over sight on some programs....
Several systems may get the scratch early on prior to downselect because, especially in M16FOW based entities, the controls are unfamiliar and 'awkward or undesirable'
This has hit the Sig based guns hard in several tests and the are not downs elected further.
Some reason maybe why Sig has released a M16 mag gun is to get way from the rock n lock.
1)user testing down select. (after SME's have gotten baseline data)
2) endurance / reliability
3) environmental reliability.
4) User Operational testing (sometime part of 1)
5) lifecycle reliability / baseline. Taking the gun to the projected lifecycle of rounds and detailing part failures etc.
At some point in time ( and ideally throughout) a system integration check list needs to be done to ensure your 2k gun is not going to junk your added accessories (oh SCAR where art though, oh yeah breaking day sights, lasers and NV...)
an embarrassing over sight on some programs....
Several systems may get the scratch early on prior to downselect because, especially in M16FOW based entities, the controls are unfamiliar and 'awkward or undesirable'
This has hit the Sig based guns hard in several tests and the are not downs elected further.
Some reason maybe why Sig has released a M16 mag gun is to get way from the rock n lock.
