HK MR223 hitting the market in May 2008
- Thread starter greentips
- Start date
Uh, it is an HK 416 variant. I don't think the 417 will sell well with .308 being as expensive as it is.
The worst it could be is restricted. All the 416/417 would be in the eyes of the RCMP is an AR variant.
HK Germany does not despise civilian sales. It is prevented from selling "weapons of war" to civilians by German law. That is why they needed Government approval before they could market these rifles for civilians.
So it is much more fun to say that HK "despise civilian sales", but if you really understood what lay behind the fact that they don't sell much to civilians you may be less reluctant to say this...
Beg to differ on this point:
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From my perspective, I think greed won out, when HK saw so many other companies starting to cash in on the piston AR craze, they had to reevaluate the arrogance of their arbitrary corporate decision-making and the assumption that because they are HK, that North American consumers would remain content to continue to eat HK #### and be dipped in it. [/FONT]
From my perspective, I think greed won out, when HK saw so many other companies starting to cash in on the piston AR craze, they had to reevaluate the arrogance of their arbitrary corporate decision-making and the assumption that because they are HK, that North American consumers would remain content to continue to eat HK #### and be dipped in it. [/FONT]
As I said, HK has TWO legal loopholes to jump through.
1) German law:
- HK's are made in Germany
- German law prohibits HK selling "weapons of war" to civilian end users - wherever in the world they are located.
- If HK breach this law, then the German government can stop them from exporting or even manufacturing firearms.
- This is why HK got mad when the G36's hit the market here - not because they lost sales but because they were potentially in breach of German law.
2) US law
- Import restrictions
- ATF restrictions on NFA stuff etc
My point is that even though the ATF said it was ok to sell the uppers to US civilians an ATF ruling does NOT release HK Germany from the requirements of German law.
Now with this new development, HK have not received the OK from the ATF in the USA to market these rifles. The approval they just got is GERMAN approval to sell the rifle to civilians (this is why the rifles are configured with 10 round mags etc to comply with German law): http://www.hkpro.com/hkpro416civilianannouncement.htm
Previously, if HK sold the uppers to civilians they were in breach of German law. Now, although these new semi rifles are not in breach of German law, it is doubtful that they pass the US import ban so will more than likely have to be manufactured locally in the USA to be able to be sold to US civilians.
HK don't hate civilian sales: they have previously been prevented from selling black rifles to civilans by German and/or US law. They are just in the unfortunate position that they operate in a very regulated country.
Oh, X-Man I should add that this is not a result of HK simply seeing the dollar value in the US AR market, because in all likelihood this new rifle will be illegal to import into the USA.
So in order to sell it in the USA, HK would need to set up a factory and manufacture them there. HK toyed with the idea of building a factory last year but it seems that it has fallen through since it will cost too much money.
Also you will notice that these new civilian 416's come with SL-8 type mags - they are neutered to comply with German law. So although Canada should get them no problem, US shooters may not see them for a while unless the ATF decides that it is ok to import these despite the import bans (unlikely).
So in order to sell it in the USA, HK would need to set up a factory and manufacture them there. HK toyed with the idea of building a factory last year but it seems that it has fallen through since it will cost too much money.
Also you will notice that these new civilian 416's come with SL-8 type mags - they are neutered to comply with German law. So although Canada should get them no problem, US shooters may not see them for a while unless the ATF decides that it is ok to import these despite the import bans (unlikely).
HK Germany does not despise civilian sales. It is prevented from selling "weapons of war" to civilians by German law. That is why they needed Government approval before they could market these rifles for civilians.
HK USA (distributor in USA and separate company) is a shambles. Due to the import ban they cannot sell most things to civilians other than pistols. The SL8 and USC was the only 'black' long gun that HK has been able to sell to civilians in the USA since the 1986 bans in the USA - this is because it had to overcome the German Government restrictions AND US import restrictions. So HK USA do most of their sales to Government and LE as a result.
So it is much more fun to say that HK "despise civilian sales", but if you really understood what lay behind the fact that they don't sell much to civilians you may be less reluctant to say this...
X2 finally someone is able to sum up the facts!!
They teamed up with Wilcox in New Hampshire. Like I said earlier, H&K will probably build the barrel and receiver here and bring in everything else from Germany.
German Law has changed recently WRT the determination of weapons of war and civilian ownership. Additionally so has Hk's ownership so they are a wee bit more friendly.
Jim Schatz was fired from HkUSA.
Hk's barrel making facility/capability in the US is still in question for US sales.
Jim Schatz was fired from HkUSA.
Hk's barrel making facility/capability in the US is still in question for US sales.
Yeah, I heard H&K ownership changed back in July. As for barrels, H&K will have to build them in the U.S. Remember, they're doing this to appeal to the American market. Yeah, they could sell the 416/417 in Canada and a few small European countries, but the big bucks are in America. It just wouldn't be profitable enough for them any other way. The only thing i'm worried about right now is what will happen if Hillary gets in the White House in '08.
I don't see how that's even possible. The U.S. has an import ban on barrels and uppers that can be installed on "machineguns". Since the 416 upper can be used with a full-auto AR-15 lower, it has to be manufactured in the U.S. if it is to be sold there.
