Home defence For my Wife

First, practice practice practice.

often one forgets to cycle a pump/lever gun under stress. practice

just some recommendations covering the gamut:

cz858
sks
18.5" Storm carbine in 40 sw
357 mag puma lever
20ga pump

borrow as many guns as you gan and take a trip to the range or better yet the wood (fewer eyes on her while she learns = fewer nerves). Try each type and see which she prefers. Then practice.

+1 on Massad Ayoob
 
So here it is... I live in a rural area and there are only a few houses nearby but One i'm sure is being used for a Marijuana grow op. Due to limited resources and what not the RCMP can't really take action on an empty house and not get any charges. Boils down to this. My wife is scared that something bad may happed, though I feel her fear is unfounded, she would be more comfortable with a defence gun available. She is petite and has previous back and neck injuries so a .12 guage is out. Is a .410 or .20 suitable for home defence? Smaller the better, what would you recomend on the cheap?


best defense is a good offense. in your case keep your nose out of their business and they wont have any REASON to give you a REASON for home defense.

People need to learn to THINK before they get all jacked up with guns ready to shoot someone who probably have no clue who you are...

some people should own guns, some shouldnt.

:jerkit:
 
Another thing too: a no-brainer, but most people never bother with it.

Make friends with the cop on your beat.

Do you know the officer(s) who patrol your area? If you can develop good rapport with them, and let them know your concerns about the safety of your neighbourhood, they will spend more time on patrol there. It's a fact that police will more frequently patrol those parts of the beat where their family and friends live.
 
Is the FN PS 90 commonly available? That's just about the coolest "pistol" I've ever seen; I presume it is restricted, correct? What barrel lengths are available and do any of the CGN sponsors sell it?

Just curious,
Thanks,

CE
Questar has them (click link above). They cost more than a cheap car, but less than a good funeral.
 
Others have mentioned it, but if you're looking on sticking with a shotgun, choose a flavour - semi or pump. I'd do a pump, myself. Then put a Knoxx SpecOps recoil reducing stock on it. Now practice with it.
 
"Home defence for my wife" with "something small and cheap". Man! I don't know how to start! For home defence and for wife you buy the best and most reliable gun you can afford, even if you have to put second morgage on the house! From this post, some people might conclude that you wouldn't mind to become a widower!
My wife is scared that something bad may happed, though I feel her fear is unfounded, she would be more comfortable with a defence gun available. Smaller the better, what would you recomend on the cheap?
 
"Home defence for my wife" with "something small and cheap". Man! I don't know how to start! For home defence and for wife you buy the best and most reliable gun you can afford, even if you have to put second morgage on the house! From this post, some people might conclude that you wouldn't mind to become a widower!

ehh?
cheap doesnt necessarily mean ineffective and unreliable.
a $150 Mosin M44 will kill anything on the planet and has been proven to function reliably in the absolute worst conditions you can imagine in the hands of untrained peasants.

different people have different budgets. you can pick up a reliable, effective home defense gun on ANY budget even if its an old $50 12ga cooey.
 
Dogs are useful for many reasons besides companionship. A firearm can't comfort you, make you feel good on a bad day, or bring you your slippers. Dogs seem to keep police and criminals away...while home-defense firearms seem to bring police and criminals to your home. Given our lack of legal support to defend ourselves with weapons, if the dog is defeated, the infiltrator's motives of harming the occupants are clear. In a court of law, that must count for something to prove that your life was in danger at the time you smoke the dirtbag. Even in the end, the dog saves your butt.
I have more than a few police friends, and they've all joked about me selling my hd fa to them now that I have my Doberman. I must stress that canine obedience is paramount as a large dog owner!
For a home-defence firearm, I might choose for my wife a 8.5" Dlask 870 with a Knoxx Spec-Ops recoil reducing stock with LE controlled-flite wad 00 ammo...if I didn't own such a competent large dog. ;-)
 
If you own the house then defend your castle by all means with a gun being the last resort. If you don't, then get the hell out of Iraq because cheap rent isn't worth the stress, worry and danger. If her fear really is unfounded, then for god sakes man don't encourage it by arming her for war! Don't make her a potential killer in order to keep an address.

If your determined to stay there then there are a few options after you've proofed your house against break-ins first. Get an alarm, a dog, bars for the windows etc etc. I won't presume to know her comfort level with firearms but if a .243 is out then forget about a 12 or 20 gauge. A .410 maybe? Mossberg has a .410 model called a Home Security (HS410) that has a fore-end grip, muzzle brake, spreader choke and youth sized stock. I'd stay away from autos from a reliability standpoint regardless of caliber or gauge. A pump or lever .22 is cheap to feed, easy to practice with and you can get more rounds per dollar down range for said practice. A well placed .22 round and a tube mag with a dozen spares is better than a flinch shot with little chance of a good follow-up while your night sight is blinded from muzzle flash.

Regardless of everything written in this thread, re-evaluate your choice of address first before you arm her. Is it defensible? Prone to crime? I don't want to come off as a pacifist because I own a Mossberg Persuader for those "just in case" scenarios myself. However I'll set aside my macho Rambo tendencies if getting my wife out of danger without having killed someone on her conscience is a feasible option first.
 
The guy who trained my Lab, trains these guys for a living for security purposed. They are scary little devils. I wouldn't even consider the thought of have to be near a malinois if it doesn't want you there..

They are absolutely amazing dogs. But can be a bit intense. That was the reason for suggesting the Dutch Shepherd; they are a little calmer.

We were in a fairly remote campground in Manitoba when a bus pulled in. It was on its way to a very remote reserve. Some folks got out to stretch (about 150 yards away) and one druk/belligerent fellow started to loudly make his way toward the camp sites. You could see the campers gathering their kids up...he was loud and ornery. He headed straight for our camp site.

I told him to stay away, but it only convinced him he needed to come closer. Our Malinois, Scout, was tied up and he was lying in the same position as that picture I posted. The man wasn't about to heed my warnings.

Suddenly Scout burst into action and launched himself like a spring load fury of fur and teeth...but silently until the moment he was flying straight for the man's face, then he let out a growling bark. But Scout had made a mistake, he misjudged the length of his leash an missed the guy by no more than a foot or two. The man fell backwards on his ass, and Scout was in a rage, snapping teeth, flying saliva etc. The man quickly started, without a word, to make his way back to the bus. I called Scout back and petted him.

He was only 10 months old at the time.
 
I live on a farm and we decided we needed one of the guns to be handy because there are so many racoons, skunks, porcupines running around here (we have dogs and cats) plus we see foxes almost daily and hear coyotes every night. Not long ago a fox chased one of the cats up to the back door.

The solution is a 22 rifle sitting out of sight on top of a bookcase. the magazine for it is loaded, but in my desk drawer. When I hear a racoon in the garbage, it only takes me about 30 seconds to be out the door with a loaded rifle. Our farm area is ok for shooting, so we are allowed to have a "predator" firearm handy, and unlocked.

In the last two years there have been two grow-ops located within a couple of miles of here. Last spring two people were murdered in one of them. This got us thinking a little more seriously about two legged predators.

We have a dog, so any visitor is "announced". We are not likely to be surprised. The next step is to be able to reach a weapon from any part of the house, when needed.

You might want to have something handy in the kitchen, bedroom and family room, for example.

My wife is very experienced with rifles, somewhat experienced with handguns and has almost no experience with shotguns. She is 5'3". Shotguns kick too hard.

Of the hundreds of guns here, very few fit her, other than her own custom made target rifles. Also, there are many that she has difficulty cocking and some that she cannot ####. My 12 ga coach gun is handy, but she cannot #### the hammers.

The best gun is the gun she can ####, aim and fire with ease. Caliber and power are less relevent.

The SKS has a short stock. I have a Chinese with no bayonet. It is quite light, easy to #### (if it is already loaded) and powerful. But I don't want her to have to load the fixed mag in an emergency.

The M1 Carbine (or a Mini-30 or a Mini 14) is similar, but has the advanatage of a detachable magazine that can be kept loaded, near the gun. These guns are very easy to shoot and practice would not be a painful experience.

It would be a shame to own guns and not have access to one in an emergency. This takes some thought, practice and planning.
 
Suddenly Scout burst into action and launched himself like a spring load fury of fur and teeth...but silently until the moment he was flying straight for the man's face, then he let out a growling bark. But Scout had made a mistake, he misjudged the length of his leash an missed the guy by no more than a foot or two. The man fell backwards on his ass, and Scout was in a rage, snapping teeth, flying saliva etc. The man quickly started, without a word, to make his way back to the bus. I called Scout back and petted him.
sounds like a great way to be on the wrong end of a lawsuit. you can count yourself lucky that the end of the leash stopped him - simply approaching your camp is not grounds for your dog mauling someone. drunk or not thats a court case you would have lost.



say what you will about dogs - they are great for making you aware of danger (then again you can also get used to the 10,000 false alarms they will raise) - but a firearm is far more reliable. a dog should not be your only line of defense, not should it be looked at as 'defense' but more as a deterrent and early warning system. if you have to choose ONE thing, get a gun and learn how to use it.
where i grew up many people kept dogs for protection - mainly protection of property. but they werent 100% reliable - i know of many cases of criminals just poisoning the dog or killing it easily -- and this is just to steal smalltime stuff, not life-threatening or drug related stuff. you can have a highly trained guard dog, but good luck getting it to not to eat a piece of bacon chucked into your yard.

my absolute favorite is people who think their dogs will protect them in the bush. a dog is 10x more likely (yes i just made that statistic up) to get you killed in the bush than it is to save your life. its a huge liability and nothing more than a tasty, fatty snack to real wild animals that actually look at it as prey, not a threat.

and btw i am not talking about highly trained guard dogs here -- 99% of people are not going to spend thousands of dollars getting a dog bred for it with the proper temperament and intelligence and then investing thousands of dollars into its training. even if they do, good luck training your dog not to take a nice juicy piece of bacon from strangers. so most of the time youre talking about the average Joe's chubby lab that will most likely either tuck its tail when it receives its first boot to the face, or just going to run off totally out of control and leave your wife cowering alone in the bedroom defenseless.

a dog is basically a large, nasty, hairy 3 year old kid with sharp teeth. would you entrust your life to a 3 year old's brain and nothing else? dont get me wrong i love dogs, but they are animals and not 100% predictable, nor are they a 'universal solution' to defense. if all you are relying on is a dog to protect you you might end up in a situation where you are severely outmatched and then it will be too late.

dog+gun = good.
dog-gun = good luck.
 
sounds like a great way to be on the wrong end of a lawsuit. you can count yourself lucky that the end of the leash stopped him - simply approaching your camp is not grounds for your dog mauling someone. drunk or not thats a court case you would have lost.



and btw i am not talking about highly trained guard dogs here -- 99% of people are not going to spend thousands of dollars getting a dog bred for it with the proper temperament and intelligence and then investing thousands of dollars into its training. even if they do, good luck training your dog not to take a nice juicy piece of bacon from strangers.


First part of the quote- I know my rights and the law (well enough that I practice tort law) and I wouldn't be nearly as certain as you. ;)

Second part - I did spend that kind of money.
 
then youre in the 1% and an exception to my post :)

still, i bet if i threw your dog a piece of bacon, it would eat it :D

I will bet you $1Million (Dr. Evil voice) he won't because.....



sadly he is no longer with us.:(


I yelled at that guy to stay away, to stop etc etc. Several independent witnesses to testify what he was yelling. Plus I am in a wheelchair and had nowhere to go as he charged towards me, my wife and little 4 year old.
 
ah man, i am sorry to hear :(

i hope no dog-lovers took offense at what i said about not relying on dogs 100% for protection.
just meant that noone should rely on them entirely for their protection or their family's protection based on how they believe they will perform in one ideal scenario - a lot can go wrong. and while dogs are our most loyal friends, unless you have spent thousands of dollars and/or years of training on them, you cant predict what they will do or how effective they will be.
 
Personally, I think a .410 coach gun would fit the bill nicely. If that is what you want. I have two dogs and have never had a problem. I personally would never pull a gun on an intruder. Mini Baseball bat is nice for that.QUOTE]

If she's not familiar with firearms, a SxS is the way to go, especially under stress. A 20 ga is fine for me but in this case a .410 give some confidence IMHO. But you need a dog. A dog will give you the time to load and take a defensive position.

My 2 cents
 
I would never profess to be an expert on self defense and I don't play one on tv so I tend to default to those in the know. Massad Ayoob is one of the most respected authorities out there regarding self defense and he gave high marks to standard gripped 20 gauge pump guns using (IIRC) reduced recoil 000 buck for close range (such in house) use. In his research and testing this combination was very controllable and gave a quick return to target time. Again I certainly no expert in this matter but Mr. Ayoob is. I found this info on the Proarms podcast - ht tp://proarms.podbean.com/category/shotguns/

Cheers

Once more my memory has failed me and once more I was moving mouth before mind. :redface: So to clarify, I had to listen to the Proarms "home defense shotguns" podcast again to affirm what I thought I recalled. With a fresher take on it here are some of the highlights:

- Ayoob in fact does prefer 20 gauge 000 buck for home defense if used in a pump but he does prefer autoloaders as they won't forget to reload like a highly stressed individual might with a pump.
- His findings are that managed recoil loads aren't 100% reliable in terms of action cycling (12 or 20) with autoloaders - he recommends express loads for either gauge.
-He found that an average shooter in his LFI classes could put three 20's down range in the time it took to shoot two 12's.
- He really likes #1 buck for the 12 as the 2 3/4" round will hold a slightly higher weight of payload than 00 buck with entirely satisfactory terminal results but also acknowledges it can be hard to find.
- Buy the shotgun to fit the smallest person who might use the gun - youth models were highly recommended.
- He felt sporter style pistol grips were more desirable for home defense as there is less chance of injury to the trigger hand in the case of a hand to hand scuffle to disarm you.
- The gun should be left in Readiness Condition 3 - empty chamber, hammer down, full magazine. This could be a challenge legally in Canada or from a safety perspective with young children in the house...

As I stated in my first post I am no expert and therefore am not in a position to debate the relative merits of Ayoob's comments vs. those posted here however I will again state that he is one of the foremost experts in this field (sort of like telling Michael Schumacher how to drive ;)). So, before I dig myself a bigger hole, the entire podcast is about two hours long with a ton of info - I heartily recommend a listen for a full explanation, in fact their entire series of podcasts are worth a listen.
ht tp://proarms.podbean.com/category/shotguns/
 
If you're a dog person you don't know how much you depend on your pal to warn you of a problem or deal with it if he needs to, until you loose him. Our house, cabin and vehicles were secure when Shadow was here. On the land he would alert us to bears and wolves. You can't buy that level of security and dedication. In time we'll replace him, but its too early yet, maybe next summer. I'm leaning towards a Shiloh Shepherd.

cabinmay0740.jpg
 
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