Hornady 220 gr Round Nose bullet in the 30-06 actual hunting experience?

[Longwalker]

Not exactly on topic, but I just picked up a box of Hornady .308" 220gr. RN Full Metal Jacket bullets. Old school "very big critter getters" or to make small holes in very small game. I have a couple of trips to Africa planned in my near future. Zimbabwe again in March 2023 and perhaps Mozambique later. As a result, my mind sometimes wanders off to epic hunting stories of "long ago and far away". The 30-06 with 220 grain bullets used to be considered more versatile and capable than it is today. If the opportunity presents itself to shoot something not really suited for the .30-06, I'll be ready! Mozambique does not have "legal minimum caliber requirements" in case you're wondering. And yes, I do believe in choosing a cartridge properly adequate for the game. But...
It would be interesting to carry a .30-06 rifle sighted for the Hornady 220 RN while on safari, Use the 220 soft points for most game, and keep a few 220 FMJRN on hand for the really big and really small opportunities. Prepared for Buffalo to Dik-Dik! ;-)

 

[medvedqc]

Not exactly on topic, but I just picked up a box of Hornady .308" 220gr. RN Full Metal Jacket bullets. Old school "very big critter getters" or to make small holes in very small game. I have a couple of trips to Africa planned in my near future. Zimbabwe again in March 2023 and perhaps Mozambique later. As a result, my mind sometimes wanders off to epic hunting stories of "long ago and far away". The 30-06 with 220 grain bullets used to be considered more versatile and capable than it is today. If the opportunity presents itself to shoot something not really suited for the .30-06, I'll be ready! Mozambique does not have "legal minimum caliber requirements" in case you're wondering. And yes, I do believe in choosing a cartridge properly adequate for the game. But...
It would be interesting to carry a .30-06 rifle sighted for the Hornady 220 RN while on safari, Use the 220 soft points for most game, and keep a few 220 FMJRN on hand for the really big and really small opportunities. Prepared for Buffalo to Dik-Dik! ;-)

many used 220 fmj for elephants or rhino. the wife of Jack O connor killed a few elephants with her 30-06 220 gr fmj combo. and in the past it was used a lot for buffalo so nothing wrong with it and the good back up. the 375 that some are using is still a medium bore ...

 

[medvedqc]

I shot the Woodleigh 240s in a 700 with 1-10 twist Benchmark. Never hunted them; but accuracy was plenty good enough for short range.

i d like to see the outcome on a bear.

 

[Why not?]

I know this is about 220 gr. but has anyone tried these in the 06 ?

Those and a box of their cousins are still sitting in my loading room.

Have no doubt they both will be great performers.
Ted

 

[conor_90]

That 240 in the 300 wm is stepping on the 338 win mags toes

300 wonderful indeed

 

[Potashminer]

the only way to find out is cutting in half to see the design of each. but i will trsut more the first top box than the other.

Okay - has been done - I used JB Weld to glue one of each bullet to piece of spruce 2 x material last evening - then sawed them this morning. Should be three pictures - I do not own a mill or end mill cutters - likely would have made better visual - I used new 24 tooth hack saw to cut, then went over cut surface with Nicholson "Axe" file. My words are below each picture.



What they look like - not just a whole bunch of visual difference among era's - based on "one" of each - appears that the brass heel of the most elderly one might be more rounded than the newest ones - but could as easily be explained by change out of a forming die, as a deliberate engineering design change?



As mentioned in posts above - I have three different boxes of those bullets - I presume the bullets within the boxes are same era as the boxes - I bought none of them as "new" - were acquired via purchase on CGN. So what I think is most elderly on left, then "newer" with the word "Interlock" on the box label, then "newest" on the right. I had cut the seals to get bullet from that "newest" box, so it was factory sealed - the other boxes were not.



I sawed down from top, then sawed in from left side - a "sliver" of the jacket came off the lead core in each case. Maybe can see the most elderly - on the left - has a ridge on inside of the jacket matching up with that cannelure groove. The two slivers for centre and right bullet show an additional "ridge" nearer to the heel of the lead core. About the only visual difference that I see among them - even with magnify glass. That I know of, is no way here to check lead core hardness or alloy, or to check jacket for similar - so, if "newest" ones became different than centre one - not real obvious to see. But both the centre and right side ones had that second "ridge" inside the jacket - the left one did not - as seen on those "slivers".

EDIT: - playing a bit more - appears that the base section - from cannelure down to base of bullet - is thicker on the elderly one, versus the middle and the right one - I did not use callipers to measure - just "eye-ball" on the slivers - which may have been slightly distorted. But I am sure the elder one without the second ridge - is a thicker jacket wall - at least over that lower portion of that bullet.

 

[4fifty8]

Hornady #3090 30 caliber 220gr RN, Hornady Handbook specified optimum muzzle speed range:

• #3 1980 - 2500 to 2800 fps
• #7 2007 - 1600 to 3100 fps

Impact speed range more useful rather than muzzle speed range but newer production probably performs better over wider impact speed range.

 

[Ardent]

Potashminer for the win, I love home science. Well done.

One quick way to check jacket hardness and lead alloy is an automatic center punch, punch each of them and look at the divot for depth and material moved.

 

[DGY]

Good work Nelson!!

 

[Why not?]

Yes, very good work indeed, Nelson. Looks like the bullets from the two newest boxes, both labeled #3090, could be the same.

Was aware that the jackets were thinner than the old 220s, but had forgotten that the Interlock had been brought out in 1977.

That extra ridge, the Interlock, is explained in this advertising video from Hornady. https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-iba-syn_launcham&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-syn_launcham&hspart=iba&param2=9dUI1n2R0BLDxNuWfiP4aSFOTltNdSPoIx38%2BUf%2FiXrvPdoGmStdlfwLFZYDvqkAfvapUGDUlfVlBewW80EIyRrb5kVSDP7mREemiTHRr3fRu7WV%2BxbISorS4o%2F47fFTn22bNJYsrYB7w%2BLa0bFKsqXAcdiEE1JJLtniTNbA5Qj%2B%2FV1upFYyrNOAPQ6u%2BkBsnIKNteNya5t3vikUkG7L3YQ%2Fhyq7PYEGnFFXlW914SE%3D&param3=HpCyCT2cXaKG4CVDR00rqgObRQahimQNt2d5ZCR7Jy3IZoD3T11qaq2nywASZYgKcGaFjBksiMHQ2UHacNSUU7cf8qGStBxsiZJSch86h%2FmhWBTu%2Fhf5x5S5lXXEjzhOweuJHPxZReYVXL0AHSgZWauldtP5QNoNIiIdYwBAjN8%2FKsDqm90EhDEtsaFrsT7oe161AuJrdgfTEs51eoqSd5pex8i6WsyaizprTxI0h1azbQi82FkB7ookWrMWr9kNtn%2BIAedXNm%2BAbUMkqc5%2B2BU3jXzq0RtaR6MNUBDObjg%3D&p=Hornady+Interlock&type=f2%3A%3B.6850610d4680680b2811f3dcdca6be379af%3B5.ac48522a20946644e52a8ef8e64166f19c0ca9cdf89835745bb551d3fa4fa48fc420970e4b5f6bcb11f118abaccc6241e5cbb471fea#id=1&vid=7e87b85531d61cbcb52ae07363dc8e1e&action=click

We have a break in the weather here today; +3C at the moment. Going to be somewhat below freezing tomorrow. I am going to load a few of the earlier #3090s, and will try to round up a dozen large milk jugs and get to range tomorrow.

Ted

 

[geologist]

The old prospectors and geos carried cartridges with heavy for caliber bullets ie. 212? gr Dominion .303 for their N0.5s or less commonly 220gr soft points fir their 30-06s.

 

[Potashminer]

Thinking on this - is really two things, at least - how does bullet fly through air from muzzle to target - maybe is "accuracy" - what a target shooter most concerned about? Then what does bullet do after it impacts on target - what a hunter is likely concerned about.

In late 1970's / early 1980's I hit a white tail doe on the spine with a Sierra 165 grain SPBT - those were VERY "accurate" bullets in my 308 Win - easy to get smallish groups on 100 and 200 yard targets. But that bullet simply exploded within that deer - did not penetrate the spine. I had previously had a number of good kills with that bullet through the ribs on deer - but I did not like what I found when it hit the spine bone - so switched then to 165 Speer HotCor bullets - I still load those in that rifle - Speer #2035 - multiple dozen deer taken, a couple of elk - no complaints - but I do not remember ever replicating that exact impact - which happens with examples of "one" and only a few tags per year.

Someone into "culling" - that takes several dozen deer per weekend - would have broader experience to draw on than I have. Is like a juggling act - ideal bullet is both accurate and penetrates straight with good results - and likely cost $2 per bullet. Versus "good enough" accuracy for 300 yard shot at a 10" diameter kill zone - so long as adequate performance - at $0.25 per bullet. Some years ago, I took a mule deer buck - he was running away - my 7x57 150 grain Partition entered on his right side - about at rear end of rib cage - bullet track on skinning it was under the hide, but outside of the ribs - that bullet was found laying side-ways, where the vertebra joins to the skull - laying beside the atlas joint. At the time, was pretty much evidence to me that "chit happens" when shooting at game animals. We were lucky enough to get one mule deer tag every three years on the Saskatchewan draw - I am not sure the deer species had much to do with that bullet path - but it happened.

 

[Potashminer]

Thinking - for myself, my wife and our son and daughter - seldom get to take more than 2 or 3 shots, per person, fired at game during hunting season - most times was a single shot fired - but many boxes of bullets were fired off during summer to find that "hunting load" - maybe was mostly wasted - summer targets about "accuracy" - I never did find a good "analog" for those bullet's performance after impact, except from shooting things. OP's desire to test in water jugs, sectioning bullets to see construction - is a bit better, I think, then relying on "marketing" and "sales stories" for what is "best" to use.

Versus my Dad - he acquired an ex-military Model of 1917 (aka "P17") in 30-06 in 1948 - he took way more game with that old rifle, than I ever will with mine. And half the time, he could not tell you what brand or bullet weight was being used - was always store-bought "cheapest" ammo that he would use. When that rifle and his remnants of ammo came to me after he passed on, I fired most of it off at 100 yard target from shooting table off of sand bags. 150 grain made distinct own group a bit high and to the right. All the rest - 165, 180, 200 and 220 - a mixture of W-W, R-P, Federal and Dominion head stamps - put perhaps 15 rounds into a group at 100 yards that I could easy cover with palm of my hand - was "good enough" for him for many decades of hunting.

 

[conor_90]

The old prospectors and geos carried cartridges with heavy for caliber bullets ie. 212? gr Dominion .303 for their N0.5s or less commonly 220gr soft points fir their 30-06s.

In old school BC coastal archaeologist Knut Fladmarks “ guide to field technique” he suggests a rifle in at least 303 Brit for bear defence in camp/ on site.

I have a box of dominion KKSP 215 grain 303 bullets just in case

One summer a few years back I would occasionally carry a 30-06 with 220 grain SAKO loads for this purpose.

 

[saskcop]

Thanks very much, saskcop. That's what I am wondering about, actual experience on game. Sounds like they held together just fine when started off at 2500+ fps.

What range was the shot? Were any of the bullets recovered at all?

All the best in your hunting during 2023!

Ted

Hey Ted - sorry for the late reply. My CGN attendance as of late has been lacking. We have NEVER recovered a 220 grain Hornady. My father in law used them for years and I asked him and he said he never recovered one and suspects a few of them are still going .... As far as the range goes, most hits were under 200 yards, but we did have one that was way out there past 300 or so and no recovery from the large cow moose.

 

[Slimbo]

In old school BC coastal archaeologist Knut Fladmarks “ guide to field technique” he suggests a rifle in at least 303 Brit for bear defence in camp/ on site.

I have a box of dominion KKSP 215 grain 303 bullets just in case

One summer a few years back I would occasionally carry a 30-06 with 220 grain SAKO loads for this purpose.

I have a couple boxes of Norma 215RN just waiting for the right 303 to cross my path

 

[conor_90]

Yes I should mention I do not own a 303 and haven’t in years lol

Bought for either a 303 no 1 Brit or Ross rifle at the Dawson Creek gun show along with 200 something bullets.

Thankfully I sold the bullets so I don’t feel the need to get a new 303, though I wouldn’t mind that ruger no 1 or Ross back.

Something about 215 grain 303 screams “ Northern BC” to me, wonder if any of them ended up in Bison back in the day.

 

[medvedqc]

Okay - has been done - I used JB Weld to glue one of each bullet to piece of spruce 2 x material last evening - then sawed them this morning. Should be three pictures - I do not own a mill or end mill cutters - likely would have made better visual - I used new 24 tooth hack saw to cut, then went over cut surface with Nicholson "Axe" file. My words are below each picture.

View attachment 644085

What they look like - not just a whole bunch of visual difference among era's - based on "one" of each - appears that the brass heel of the most elderly one might be more rounded than the newest ones - but could as easily be explained by change out of a forming die, as a deliberate engineering design change?

View attachment 644086

As mentioned in posts above - I have three different boxes of those bullets - I presume the bullets within the boxes are same era as the boxes - I bought none of them as "new" - were acquired via purchase on CGN. So what I think is most elderly on left, then "newer" with the word "Interlock" on the box label, then "newest" on the right. I had cut the seals to get bullet from that "newest" box, so it was factory sealed - the other boxes were not.

View attachment 644087

I sawed down from top, then sawed in from left side - a "sliver" of the jacket came off the lead core in each case. Maybe can see the most elderly - on the left - has a ridge on inside of the jacket matching up with that cannelure groove. The two slivers for centre and right bullet show an additional "ridge" nearer to the heel of the lead core. About the only visual difference that I see among them - even with magnify glass. That I know of, is no way here to check lead core hardness or alloy, or to check jacket for similar - so, if "newest" ones became different than centre one - not real obvious to see. But both the centre and right side ones had that second "ridge" inside the jacket - the left one did not - as seen on those "slivers".

EDIT: - playing a bit more - appears that the base section - from cannelure down to base of bullet - is thicker on the elderly one, versus the middle and the right one - I did not use callipers to measure - just "eye-ball" on the slivers - which may have been slightly distorted. But I am sure the elder one without the second ridge - is a thicker jacket wall - at least over that lower portion of that bullet.

thank you so much.

 

[Why not?]

Thanks very much, saskcop. That's what I am wondering about, actual experience on game. Sounds like they held together just fine when started off at 2500+ fps.

What range was the shot? Were any of the bullets recovered at all?

All the best in your hunting during 2023!

Ted

Hey Ted - sorry for the late reply. My CGN attendance as of late has been lacking. We have NEVER recovered a 220 grain Hornady. My father in law used them for years and I asked him and he said he never recovered one and suspects a few of them are still going .... As far as the range goes, most hits were under 200 yards, but we did have one that was way out there past 300 or so and no recovery from the large cow moose.

Well, that's certainly encouraging, and is what we always expected using the old pre-Interlock bullet. Thank you.

One last question, do you know if they were the 220 Interlocks designated as #3090 or the older ones?

Ted

 

[Why not?]

Shoot ‘em at a bison!

Okay, that's where these ones are going.

Ted