How do you have one in the chamber and a full magazine with a CRF bolt action?

bcsteve said:
All my CRF rifles (Mauser 96, Win70, Ruger Hawkeye, early pushfeed claw extractor Ruger MKII and Kimber Montana) will easily chamber a loose cartridge from the action. The extractor slips over the rim with no issues.
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I have a made-in-1955 Win Model 70 that single feeds effortlessly - it has a beveled nose to it's extractor claw. I have a Zastava LK M70 that will not - the Parker Hale extractor claw, that I installed, needs more bevel. I have several Mauser 96 here - some former military, some "worked over" and some used as basis for "commercial" sporting rifles. The leading edge of the extractor claw is beveled to varying extents on some of them, so, some will "single feed". However, the NOS extractors, in the little metal container, as a Swede military armourer would install in a Swede military rifle, appear to have nearly square leading edges - not a hope to "snap over" a chamber cartridge rim. They could be ground to do so. I am not certain that a military armourer would do that, though - my impression was that military overhaul was mostly about "drop in parts" - each the same, very little hand fitting desired. So, check the leading edge of the claw on your Swede 96 - I am sure that you will find it to be beveled. I don't think that is the "normal" military status, though. If you will ever need to replace it, and do find a NOS replacement for Sweden surplus, then you will have to have it ground, to be able to continue to "single feed" that mauser. When done properly, that single feed chambering should be very smooth and effortless - if you have to "pound" on the bolt handle or use extra force, something is not correct.

"CRF" - controlled round feed - might be mis-understood by some. It is not the external claw extractor - it is the cartridge coming up the bolt face and having the rim behind the extractor before the cartridge is chambered. A No. 4 Lee Enfield in 303 British is CRF - try it - partially chamber a cartridge, then pull the bolt back - on a No. 4, that first cartridge will be extracted and ejected because the rim was behind the extractor - do the same on a push feed Model 70 and the partially chambered cartridge will stay there - the cartridge is pushed along ahead of the extractor - the bolt does not get hold of it until fully chambered, and the bolt mostly closed. As a result, is possible to partially chamber a round, then pull bolt all the way back and pick up the next cartridge and it will try to go into chamber that already has a round in it - hence, a "jam" - the first "round" was not "controlled" all the way through its "feed" cycle. The Remington 788 that I had was most definitely not CRF, and I don't think any Remington Model 700's are either.
 
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I looked and do not have any NOS for M96 or M98 left. Picture below taken from book - "The Mauser Bolt Actions - a Shop Manual" by Jerry Kuhnhausen - bottom of page 61. I added a red arrow to point to the beveled edge that he shows on a Mauser 98 extractor - that is as much to fit to slope of the cartridge rim, as anything - that bevel may not be deep enough into the "claw" to allow that one to slide over a cartridge rim - that bevel shown is the one that is re-ground deeper to convert to "single round" feed. Note his comment that the extractor should deflect outward by .004" when a case is being held - is meant to be under tension to work properly.

I just tried with a 1909 Argentine Mauser 98 rifle and a 1909 Mauser 98 cavalry carbine - both have extractors with slight bevels as shown below - neither will single feed.

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iron cat said:
I know neither of the Parker Hale rifles I had could single feed without coming out of the magazine , but my 1917 Enfield has been altered .
Cat
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I did not know that about other Parker Hale rifles, but I do know that an unaltered 1917 Enfield (US Model of 1917) and the earlier Pattern 1914 (P14) were designed and manufactured to single feed from the factories.
 
Potashminer said:
I did not know that about other Parker Hale rifles, but I do know that an unaltered 1917 Enfield (US Model of 1917) and the earlier Pattern 1914 (P14) were designed and manufactured to single feed from the factories.
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Thanks for the info, I was not aware of the 1917 single feed modification, of course I have never handled a 1917 that was all original, I thought they were simply altered when the sporterized.:cool:
Some of the Parker Hale 98's I have shot were altered , but mine were not .
Cat
 
That original design feature is just one of several reasons that I think the P14 and M1917 are very much "overlooked" by mainstream - make excellent sporter rifles, although, like other makes and models, have their little idiosyncrasies - parts interchangeability one maker to another being one of them. However, the BSA sporter rifle conversions of the M1917 have all the "hard work" done - rear sight ears removed, drilled and tapped for scope base, also drilled and tapped for a right side aperture sight like the Lyman 57 SME, "duck pond" is filled, feed lips re-contoured for round nose ammo, and so on. Just typically "heavy" rifles to carry, but usually that much easier to shoot!!! For whatever reason, my Dad liked having the six rounds of 30-06 in magazine plus one in the chamber of his M1917 - was a "farmer sporter" that he "did up" in 1948 - shot a bazillion head of game with it.

Was always a "joke" between him and I when hunting - I could empty my Ruger #1 a damn sight quicker, than he could empty his rifle...
 
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Some Mauser type 98 Extractors have been Factory engineered to slip over the Cartridge Head when the Bolt is closed. FN Mausers 98 Actions are one of them.

To find out for sure if yours is modified, drop a Shell into the Chamber and try without to much force to close the Bolt. If the Bolt wont close then you know yours is not modified and you likely need a Cleaning Rod to remove the Round from the Chamber. If that is the case load your 4th round as "Boomer" suggested.

Cheers
 
Potashminer said:
I have a made-in-1955 Win Model 70 that single feeds effortlessly - it has a beveled nose to it's extractor claw. I have a Zastava LK M70 that will not - the Parker Hale extractor claw, that I installed, needs more bevel. I have several Mauser 96 here - some former military, some "worked over" and some used as basis for "commercial" sporting rifles. The leading edge of the extractor claw is beveled to varying extents on some of them, so, some will "single feed". However, the NOS extractors, in the little metal container, as a Swede military armourer would install in a Swede military rifle, appear to have nearly square leading edges - not a hope to "snap over" a chamber cartridge rim. They could be ground to do so. I am not certain that a military armourer would do that, though - my impression was that military overhaul was mostly about "drop in parts" - each the same, very little hand fitting desired. So, check the leading edge of the claw on your Swede 96 - I am sure that you will find it to be beveled. I don't think that is the "normal" military status, though. If you will ever need to replace it, and do find a NOS replacement for Sweden surplus, then you will have to have it ground, to be able to continue to "single feed" that mauser. When done properly, that single feed chambering should be very smooth and effortless - if you have to "pound" on the bolt handle or use extra force, something is not correct.

"CRF" - controlled round feed - might be mis-understood by some. It is not the external claw extractor - it is the cartridge coming up the bolt face and having the rim behind the extractor before the cartridge is chambered. A No. 4 Lee Enfield in 303 British is CRF - try it - partially chamber a cartridge, then pull the bolt back - on a No. 4, that first cartridge will be extracted and ejected because the rim was behind the extractor - do the same on a push feed Model 70 and the partially chambered cartridge will stay there - the cartridge is pushed along ahead of the extractor - the bolt does not get hold of it until fully chambered, and the bolt mostly closed. As a result, is possible to partially chamber a round, then pull bolt all the way back and pick up the next cartridge and it will try to go into chamber that already has a round in it - hence, a "jam" - the first "round" was not "controlled" all the way through its "feed" cycle. The Remington 788 that I had was most definitely not CRF, and I don't think any Remington Model 700's are either.
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did you try with another zastava? we have 3 at home for now and all of them 2 x 9.3x62 and 1 30-06 are doing it the perfect way but i still do not like the zastava safety and will prefer and gentry 3 positions one like the ruger or winchester ones.
 
I had bought a Dakota and a Gentry horizontal swing three position safety - one was installed onto that Zastava in 458 Win Mag and the other onto a Husqvarna Model 649 (based on an FN M98 action) in 9.3x62 - but I have forgotten which one went on which rifle. As you said, they work pretty much like the ones on my Model 70 Winchesters, and I prefer that type.

The Parker Hale extractor on the Zastava rifle - is a twisted story that only an old fart like me could pull off - I no longer have either the original Zastava bolt nor the original extractor that came with the rifle - they are living and functioning just fine on a 300 Win Mag on Vancouver Island, the last that I heard. I substituted a Parker Hale bolt with extractor, that was made for a belted magnum cartridge - I timed that replacement bolt, checked the lug bearing surfaces - I have the cocking piece fitted, etc. to a standard two stage mauser military trigger and sear - the Zastava trigger is no longer installed. Then installed the external extractor and discovered it would not single feed. As per postings in this thread, I had discovered this is not the only Parker Hale extractor that will not "pop over" a cartridge rim - needs "tuning". I also have a Parker Hale Safari DE LUXE in 308 Norma Mag - it will not single feed, either.
 
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Brassman66 said:
Some Mauser type 98 Extractors have been Factory engineered to slip over the Cartridge Head when the Bolt is closed. FN Mausers 98 Actions are one of them.

To find out for sure if yours is modified, drop a Shell into the Chamber and try without to much force to close the Bolt. If the Bolt wont close then you know yours is not modified and you likely need a Cleaning Rod to remove the Round from the Chamber. If that is the case load your 4th round as "Boomer" suggested.

Cheers
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Always something to verify before you have to depend on it - my Husqvarna 649 is built by Husqvarna on an FN Commercial M98 Mauser action, and will not single feed. I believe that I can make it do so, by re-grinding the shape of the bevel on the front edge of that claw nose, without making that claw too "short", and losing the sideways tension that a Mauser 98 should have on a cartridge rim groove under that claw. I also have two of the FN Mauser 98's made in very early 1950's - chambered in 30-06 at FN factory for Belgian Navy and Army - with the notch in the front receiver ring - neither came with original FN bolts or extractors, so not really an example what an FN product could do - both close on 30-06 GO gauge; neither will close on 30-06 NOGO gauge - one does not single feed, at all; the other one does with a distinct "click" as that extractor pops over - so some very fine tuning needed as well. Gets to be a thing with mausers, I think, to use words like "always", "never" and "every", without having tried on a number of examples.
 
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Thanks Potashminer

I’m what they now call a visual learner, they used to call it something else…
 
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I have 3 of the new M-70's in CRF, 243, 30-06, 375 H&H. And a pre 64 M-70 in 300H&H. Plus a Kimber 8400 in 30-06. The only one that was difficult to single feed was the 243. To fix that I "gently" pulled back on the extractor claw to release a little bit of its tension. Took a few tries to get it just right. They all single round feed without effort, there is no feeling when you close the bolt that your straining anything.
 
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unmodified
mrC0a1f.jpg

Modified
lKgGqu4.jpg

notice the subtle change to the leading edge
 
I have not tried that modification yet - so, the re-grinding - does it go all the way to the rear face of the extractor?? In other words, does the "knife edge" of the extractor still make the same contact with the smallest diameter inside the case's rim cut? If so, then I would be looking at mainly changing the slope of that bevel - to "lay it back" to a shallower angle than when "new"?

A thing I am maybe stuck on - that a case rim needs to "click in" under the mauser extractor - quite secure - Kuhnhausen book calls for .004" tension on that extractor when holding a case - not wobbly when the bolt is out of rifle with a case installed. Maybe is different when converted to single feed??
 
I have three true mauser type CRF actions, one parker hale in 308, one custom in 300wm built on a VZ mauser, and one norinco M334 mauser clone in 308. All three extractors have been modified to single feed and function flawlessly as CRF when fed from magazine but also have option to single feed..
 
The extractor on all of mine still make 100% contact on the case rim the whole circumference of the extractor. The angle of the bevel is relieved so it can pop over the rim.
 
obsessed1b said:
The extractor on all of mine still make 100% contact on the case rim the whole circumference of the extractor. The angle of the bevel is relieved so it can pop over the rim.
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This is how Springfield did it with their 1903 rifles, (Mauser 98 copy bolt),it has a magazine cut off that allows single feeding yet have a full mag in reserve.
 
Potashminer said:
I have not tried that modification yet - so, the re-grinding - does it go all the way to the rear face of the extractor?? In other words, does the "knife edge" of the extractor still make the same contact with the smallest diameter inside the case's rim cut? If so, then I would be looking at mainly changing the slope of that bevel - to "lay it back" to a shallower angle than when "new"?

A thing I am maybe stuck on - that a case rim needs to "click in" under the mauser extractor - quite secure - Kuhnhausen book calls for .004" tension on that extractor when holding a case - not wobbly when the bolt is out of rifle with a case installed. Maybe is different when converted to single feed??
Click to expand...
You need the tension !
 
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