baribal-i really appreciate how you're trying to help- thank you! i wonder if theres a way through the hva main company (of course i guess ill $) that they could go through their data base files or whatever documents and send that damn ser#A info?? If you have any suggestions on what later models that i should keep looking for i'd appreciate it! I'm gonna buy that other crosspin 1640 but now it seems the pickings are getting slim. love the 1600 series vg-ex only and only wood with lines that warm the heart. Which ones are the rarest ones??? silly newbie questions but this is how i learn thnx B2012