Well, I cannot make a statement about the reloading, because I did not load either cartridge in these examples. IIRC, the 338 was a factory load though.
See above comment.
I will take a couple of pictures and post later.
Regards, Dave.
I Screwed Up, and I Knew Better !!!
- Thread starter c-fbmi
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Well, I cannot make a statement about the reloading, because I did not load either cartridge in these examples. IIRC, the 338 was a factory load though.
See above comment.
I will take a couple of pictures and post later.
Regards, Dave.
I'm working away right now, pics when I get home.
My loads are always double checked to make sure they aren't over, or under charged. Safety first. That and the bullets traveled the full length of adult deer. One against the spine at the tail bone, the other under hid in the ham after traveling through alot of meat.
bearkilr
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That may be so, but I haven't seen one personally and question internet reports as I don't know the circumstances of the "test media". Maybe if the nose on the TSX gets pinched or the hole plugged. That said, I've seen some weird stuff happen with most bullet types, including Accubonds, Partitions, Swift,etc.
One thing that has never happened though is the disintegration of a Barnes and that's the reason I continue to use them. I would much rather have a bullet perform like a solid than a grenade. The upside is I've gotten a lot of exercise and practice tracking since the popularity of target bullets for hunting has increased.
If the nose gets pinched or the hole plugged it could possibly impede expansion but it wouldn't impede penetration....in fact it would enhance it. The test media in the cases I'm talking about were live critters.
bearkilr
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I don't really get the whole idea that people believe a Barnes must exit? I've recovered solids, so not having a pass through doesn't mean there's a failure of some sort.
Mono metals don't exit in lots of cases but as they are designed to expand, when you find an unexpanded one inside an animal it is cause for concern. Something most definitely went wrong.
bearkilr
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Funny how people blame the bullet manufacturer yet when a Berger explodes and causes a superficial wound, the hunter is to blame. Regardless, I have yet to have a Barnes fail to put down an animal when the bullet is put in the proper place. I can't say the same for a host of other "trending" bullets.
And I would still like to see a picture of an unexpanded TTSX.
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I don't care if it exits, breaks up , doesn't exit, or does a jig inside, as long as the bullet kills quick and goes where I aim!
Cat
Cat
bearkilr; Love your term "trending" bullets. It seems there is a trend toward using thin jacketed match type bullets to hunt with. [VLDs SMKs, etc]
I will never use such bullets to shoot living creatures with. They are just too fragile to get the job done, particularly at high velocity/close range.
I have been in the habit of sectioning any jacketed bullet to see what the jacket/core relationship is like. ........very revealing, to say the least!
After sectioning a Berger VLD "hunting" bullet, I immediately rejected it as such, regardless of the claims.
After killing game with the Nosler Partition over a 50+ year period, and recovering roughly 20% of these, the rest making exit, I have come to expect reliable performance from them.
So reliable in my personal case, that it has been somewhat boring.
Therefore, to see several failures to expand from the TSX/TTSX in the short time they have been in existence, makes me just a bit cautious about performance.
I think they are very good, perhaps even better than C&C type bullets, bonded or otherwise.
But I also believe there is more to learn about them as yet. I am certain that Barnes and others who offer monometal bullets are working on it.
Because I occasionally hunt logging clear cuts, where shots can be stretched out considerably, I load the Scirocco II for such hunts, since it is proving to be an excellent alternative.
Regards, Dave.
One thing that should be done with ALL bullets is use them within their parameters. Barnes has been stressing for years that they want people to drop down in weight and get some extra velocity for optimum performance. In a 260 I use 100gr TTSX at slmost 3200 fps. I use 150gr in my 300WSM. In a 7-08 I wouldn't go heavier than 140 gr. in a 308 or 30-06 the 130/150gr bullets are the answer.
Pick your bullet based on your needs/ beliefs then use them as intended. Don't expect a bullet designed to rapidly expand to work well on a moose shoulder and don't expevt a mono metal bullet to rapidly expand violently like a frangible bullet.
Pick your bullet based on your needs/ beliefs then use them as intended. Don't expect a bullet designed to rapidly expand to work well on a moose shoulder and don't expevt a mono metal bullet to rapidly expand violently like a frangible bullet.
I would like to see a picture of a TSX/TTSX that has failed to expand. I have heard of this, but have never seen proof.
One thing that should be done with ALL bullets is use them within their parameters. Barnes has been stressing for years that they want people to drop down in weight and get some extra velocity for optimum performance. In a 260 I use 100gr TTSX at slmost 3200 fps. I use 150gr in my 300WSM. In a 7-08 I wouldn't go heavier than 140 gr. in a 308 or 30-06 the 130/150gr bullets are the answer.
Now you have actually said something I agree with...........hence my own self recrimination for putting together this load and expecting better results. I use 150 TTSX in my 300 WSM as well and it has killed with great aplomb, all that has been hit with it. As I have said previously I use TSX in my 375 H&H and have killed dozens of animals with it and never had to track even one. You have now finally circled all the way around to agree with what I said in my opening post...........The TTSX is a poor bullet at moderate velocity in a medium capacity case. Therefore "I screwed up and I knew better" My load was not a down load it was 44 grs of IMR 4350 with a CCI 200 and the 120 TTSX, still within the books that I have but certainly not a reduced load. (I know, not my usual method of loading, staying within the parameters of a loading book, but the kid was using the rifle)
Anc3593......I'm sorry, but I can see no correlation between my issues with the TTSX and your story of using 223 and 22-250 on deer and bear...........which I happen to disagree with vehemently. But thank you for the support, however skewed.[/QUOTE]
c-fbmi
Well - if I understand correctly, it seems that for lack of speed - or a strong bone to mushroom it, that bullet failed to kill - so I brought up the other end of the scale - rather than a larger bullet going slowish, a small bullet going very fast behaves very differently. Fellows find it easy to imagine that a heavier bullet is better - like for moose with a 30-06 - most everyone would go heavier - but along with the increased weight, we get decreased velocity - which is much more difficult to reckon in the imagination.
I've never used .223 for game - I and my family use 22-250 - and we do very well - so I feel a little, though not completely, immune to the snickering - ease up on that guys - if you want to get real, candid stories. I need to say no more on that except that I would repeat that I appreciate when guys like you c-fbmi are still bothering to post on here after you've taken so much crap from naysayers.
I know that you've shot game which certainly needed the large bore, deep penetrating, high horsepower bullets - and they do have their advantages of course - but it is easy to forget that there is something left behind when we slow down the bullet. That "something" is worth searching out in real life - rather than imagining it valueless.
I wonder if your TTSX were far lighter and far faster, if it wouldn't have done the job - what do you think?
EDIT - whups - you got a post in while I wrote mine.
c-fbmi
Well - if I understand correctly, it seems that for lack of speed - or a strong bone to mushroom it, that bullet failed to kill - so I brought up the other end of the scale - rather than a larger bullet going slowish, a small bullet going very fast behaves very differently. Fellows find it easy to imagine that a heavier bullet is better - like for moose with a 30-06 - most everyone would go heavier - but along with the increased weight, we get decreased velocity - which is much more difficult to reckon in the imagination.
I've never used .223 for game - I and my family use 22-250 - and we do very well - so I feel a little, though not completely, immune to the snickering - ease up on that guys - if you want to get real, candid stories. I need to say no more on that except that I would repeat that I appreciate when guys like you c-fbmi are still bothering to post on here after you've taken so much crap from naysayers.
I know that you've shot game which certainly needed the large bore, deep penetrating, high horsepower bullets - and they do have their advantages of course - but it is easy to forget that there is something left behind when we slow down the bullet. That "something" is worth searching out in real life - rather than imagining it valueless.
I wonder if your TTSX were far lighter and far faster, if it wouldn't have done the job - what do you think?
EDIT - whups - you got a post in while I wrote mine.
One thing that should be done with ALL bullets is use them within their parameters. Barnes has been stressing for years that they want people to drop down in weight and get some extra velocity for optimum performance. In a 260 I use 100gr TTSX at slmost 3200 fps. I use 150gr in my 300WSM. In a 7-08 I wouldn't go heavier than 140 gr. in a 308 or 30-06 the 130/150gr bullets are the answer.
Now you have actually said something I agree with...........hence my own self recrimination for putting together this load and expecting better results. I use 150 TTSX in my 300 WSM as well and it has killed with great aplomb, all that has been hit with it. As I have said previously I use TSX in my 375 H&H and have killed dozens of animals with it and never had to track even one. You have now finally circled all the way around to agree with what I said in my opening post...........The TTSX is a poor bullet at moderate velocity in a medium capacity case. Therefore "I screwed up and I knew better" My load was not a down load it was 44 grs of IMR 4350 with a CCI 200 and the 120 TTSX, still within the books that I have but certainly not a reduced load. (I know, not my usual method of loading, staying within the parameters of a loading book, but the kid was using the rifle
Which brings up the question of what would have happened with the same shot placement and a 100gr TTSX at 3200fps? We won't ever know of course but perhaps there would have been more damage. I still doubt it would have been as dramatic as a ballistic tip or similar though.
The 100gr TTSX kills the hell out of deer and black bear, that I do know.
The bullets from my failures were 140gr in 280 Rem, and 150gr in 30-06...
I didn't, I did however expect it to expand as advertised. Take into account both bullets traveled through the full length of a deer, both under 70yds one would expect expansion..
I'm not ####ting on Barnes, as a matter of fact I still use them in my 30-30. I bought a bunch after I had shot a number of deer with factory PMC 150gr Starefires. Awesome bullet in the 30-30...
I actually shot two deer with Hornady GMX bullets this fall.. Have not abandoned mono-metals totally, just the TTSX that has failed me, twice!
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It's always a bit of a mystery with bullet failure (except when they blow up on the surface as had happened to me) I shot a deer end to end at 385 yards with a 180gr TSX. The exit out the lower ham looked like it expanded fine. Deer dropped like a sack of hammers!
I do wonder what the cause of the non expansion examples though. Was it simple bullet failure? Or was there some other factor like sheep hunter mentioned? Hit at a funny angle? Hit a twig and started tumbling ? Gust of wind? Act of God?
I do wonder what the cause of the non expansion examples though. Was it simple bullet failure? Or was there some other factor like sheep hunter mentioned? Hit at a funny angle? Hit a twig and started tumbling ? Gust of wind? Act of God?
bearkilr
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