IDPA/CDPA Whinning and #####ing
- Thread starter dinsdale
- Start date
Since you quote my post I will reply in part.
The following statement makes no sense. Not sure who "They" is but you say first "they....complained about our activities then asked us to join their game." Then in the next sentence you say "The Alberta coordinator never, not once, approached our facility to join IDPA.".
By they do you mean someone else associated with IDPA - Who? Obviously you can't use a trademarked IDPA logo without permission or represent yourself as someting you are not. As a businessman you would understand that and I presume you removed it as requested. You aren't the first who inadvertantly find themselves in that situation and you won't be the last.
You certainly are free to start an IDPA club and organize IDPA matches. I won't, nor can't speak to your grievances with the Alberta Coordinator but business is business and as already stated by me it makes sense for private clubes to operate IDPA/IPSC out of their facilities. As a business decision it is a no brainer.
Take Care
Bob
The following statement makes no sense. Not sure who "They" is but you say first "they....complained about our activities then asked us to join their game." Then in the next sentence you say "The Alberta coordinator never, not once, approached our facility to join IDPA.".
By they do you mean someone else associated with IDPA - Who? Obviously you can't use a trademarked IDPA logo without permission or represent yourself as someting you are not. As a businessman you would understand that and I presume you removed it as requested. You aren't the first who inadvertantly find themselves in that situation and you won't be the last.
You certainly are free to start an IDPA club and organize IDPA matches. I won't, nor can't speak to your grievances with the Alberta Coordinator but business is business and as already stated by me it makes sense for private clubes to operate IDPA/IPSC out of their facilities. As a business decision it is a no brainer.
Take Care
Bob
Canuck44 said:
Running multiple disciplines is a no brainer; the more you offer, the more people you cater to.
However, as a business, it does not make sense to allow other businesses to operate within your facility.
In (my opinion) Alberta, this is exactly what has happened... One individual has seized the horns of IDPA and made it part of their corporate activities.
The moment that happens, all actions and activities are clouded by that particular corporate direction, not the direction of the sport. As we can see by the posts made in this thread, that business in particular is very protectionist of position of IDPA and has attacked individuals in efforts to keep the “sandbox” safe.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
bclinehand
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Clearwater B.C.
TSE JR said:
JR.
Although I do not have any knowledge of the actions of what IDPA is doing in Alberta ( or the actions of the individual you are speaking about for that matter) it seems to me that this is what has caused the IDPA /CDP controversy ( IMHO ) CSSA and David Burke have done just that .....seized the horns of CDP and made it part of their corporate activities
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Ummm
CDPA was started by CSSA so it would logically follow that it is part of their corporate activities. Their mandage is to further ALL shooting activities in Canada and this is well within that pervue.
As I have stated several times in this and the other thread. IMHO this problem here appears to be one of Egos and Supeer Egos.
CDPA was started by CSSA so it would logically follow that it is part of their corporate activities. Their mandage is to further ALL shooting activities in Canada and this is well within that pervue.
As I have stated several times in this and the other thread. IMHO this problem here appears to be one of Egos and Supeer Egos.
bclinehand said:
The only place I see any controversy... If it can even be called so is here, in the tiny world of CGN...
While everyone else is out shooting there are few who would rather spend their time yakking incessantly about sh** that doesn't matter
Hi Guys,
Please excuse my long absence from the site, as I have had a couple of technical problems such as lightning melting computer parts being one.
I am the Canadian Area Coordinator for the International Defensive Pistol Association. I am dismayed to read some of the threads that have been published to date. I will pick a few of the burning issues and address them over the next few threads. I will respond to any sensible question that is brought up, and I assure you that the information you get will be truthful, accurate, and blunt. I am finished trying to be politically correct in this arena and all posts will be brutally honest, so be careful what you ask because I will expose all. I am authorized by IDPA HQ, as the Canadian Coordinator to officially answer all questions so let them rip!
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
Please excuse my long absence from the site, as I have had a couple of technical problems such as lightning melting computer parts being one.
I am the Canadian Area Coordinator for the International Defensive Pistol Association. I am dismayed to read some of the threads that have been published to date. I will pick a few of the burning issues and address them over the next few threads. I will respond to any sensible question that is brought up, and I assure you that the information you get will be truthful, accurate, and blunt. I am finished trying to be politically correct in this arena and all posts will be brutally honest, so be careful what you ask because I will expose all. I am authorized by IDPA HQ, as the Canadian Coordinator to officially answer all questions so let them rip!
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
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Who am I and by what authority and qualifications do I speak!
I am an Ex infantry soldier with 22 years service the Canadian Armed Forces. I have been shooting competitively in several disciplines since the early 80's. I currently co-own and act as the chief instructor for a tactical shooting incorporation which is contracted by the Canadian Forces to prepare its soldiers in various weapons skills and tactics for deployment to Afghanistan.
I am a safety officer/CDP instructor, an IDPA safety officer /instructor and am a member of to the CSSA, OFHA, NFA, and NRA. Along with my long list of military and forigen military qualification, I am also a Master Instructor/ Range Officer for the NFA. I have a good working relationship with the Chief Firearms Officer of Ontario, and sit or have sat on several firearms related boards.
I have offered this information, not to brag, but rather let you know where the information to your questions is coming from.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
I am an Ex infantry soldier with 22 years service the Canadian Armed Forces. I have been shooting competitively in several disciplines since the early 80's. I currently co-own and act as the chief instructor for a tactical shooting incorporation which is contracted by the Canadian Forces to prepare its soldiers in various weapons skills and tactics for deployment to Afghanistan.
I am a safety officer/CDP instructor, an IDPA safety officer /instructor and am a member of to the CSSA, OFHA, NFA, and NRA. Along with my long list of military and forigen military qualification, I am also a Master Instructor/ Range Officer for the NFA. I have a good working relationship with the Chief Firearms Officer of Ontario, and sit or have sat on several firearms related boards.
I have offered this information, not to brag, but rather let you know where the information to your questions is coming from.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
IDPA- NFA Membership!
In the previous threads it has been stated that you are required to have a NFA membership as part of being an IDPA member. This confusion, I take full responsibility for as when I was initially trying to get IDPA off the ground in Canada, I was given some misleading information reference this. I failed to investigate this fully at the time, however it was brought to my attention by several members of IDPA, that this was not necessary. A retraction was placed on the IDPA Canada Site immediately and the information was also dispersed via our private email system to our members.
As the NFA welcomed us with open arms and provided us with ample coverage both here and in the US for our shooting and other sporting activities, all for around $10.00 a year as an official group, most IDPA members maintained and intend to maintain that affiliation and coverage. The NFA has graciously put at our disposal their vast legal and advisory staff and has never once put forth their hand for any money or compensation what so ever.
I hope this clears up any misunderstanding reference IDPA and required affiliation.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
In the previous threads it has been stated that you are required to have a NFA membership as part of being an IDPA member. This confusion, I take full responsibility for as when I was initially trying to get IDPA off the ground in Canada, I was given some misleading information reference this. I failed to investigate this fully at the time, however it was brought to my attention by several members of IDPA, that this was not necessary. A retraction was placed on the IDPA Canada Site immediately and the information was also dispersed via our private email system to our members.
As the NFA welcomed us with open arms and provided us with ample coverage both here and in the US for our shooting and other sporting activities, all for around $10.00 a year as an official group, most IDPA members maintained and intend to maintain that affiliation and coverage. The NFA has graciously put at our disposal their vast legal and advisory staff and has never once put forth their hand for any money or compensation what so ever.
I hope this clears up any misunderstanding reference IDPA and required affiliation.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
IDPA vs IDPA Canada!
So as not to have anyone confused, IDPA Canada, like any of 20 or so other countries is designated as such so as to have an intimate websites and information board where individuals form that country can advertise, network and pass on relevant information pertinent to that countries IDPA affairs. This minimizes the possibility of confusion in our vast and sometimes complex organization. All IDPA clubs and organizations worldwide, also use the main IDPA website as the main and overriding source of information. This system is working well and shall continue to remain in effect with the blessing of IDPA HQ. Nothing should be read into the use of the words "IDPA Canada", it is not an organization that has sprung up like many other XDPA organizations.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
So as not to have anyone confused, IDPA Canada, like any of 20 or so other countries is designated as such so as to have an intimate websites and information board where individuals form that country can advertise, network and pass on relevant information pertinent to that countries IDPA affairs. This minimizes the possibility of confusion in our vast and sometimes complex organization. All IDPA clubs and organizations worldwide, also use the main IDPA website as the main and overriding source of information. This system is working well and shall continue to remain in effect with the blessing of IDPA HQ. Nothing should be read into the use of the words "IDPA Canada", it is not an organization that has sprung up like many other XDPA organizations.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
IDPA Training Costs,
IDPA does not and refuses to charge for training, I feel no further explanation is required. I am willing to travel at my own expense to instruct Safety Officer courses but I do not insist that other instructors do the same, rather they are permitted to charge for reasonable expenses. No further deviation of this procedure is expected because instructors within IDPA Canada are selected/invited for training, not given qualifications based on attendance and payment. This probably will raise some eyebrows, however I have first hand accounts as well as personal experience regarding this.
Remember what I said in an earlier post, I know or am familiar, via telecom with most of you so if you don't want to be embarrassed, don't ask questions or make statements which you don't want publicly answered or addressed.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Coordinator for Canada
IDPA does not and refuses to charge for training, I feel no further explanation is required. I am willing to travel at my own expense to instruct Safety Officer courses but I do not insist that other instructors do the same, rather they are permitted to charge for reasonable expenses. No further deviation of this procedure is expected because instructors within IDPA Canada are selected/invited for training, not given qualifications based on attendance and payment. This probably will raise some eyebrows, however I have first hand accounts as well as personal experience regarding this.
Remember what I said in an earlier post, I know or am familiar, via telecom with most of you so if you don't want to be embarrassed, don't ask questions or make statements which you don't want publicly answered or addressed.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Coordinator for Canada
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Holster Course,
IDPA does not charge and refuses to charge for a holster course. As mandated by our rule book a new shooter orientation program will be initiated at IDPA clubs to look after the needs of new shooters. This training should be carried out by official IDPA SO's, but in certain circumstances can be supplied by experienced action shooting competitors.
As expressed to me by the CFO for Ontario, holster certification is not mandatory in any capacity for action shooting. However, common sense dictates that it should be carried out. In any event, IDPA competitors using IDPA rules, with their classification cards properly filled in and signed by an IDPA SO will provide proof of holster competency. Unclassified shooters regardless of their time in the organization will be given stricter supervision by IDPA SO's and Instructors.
This is why IDPA rules are strictly adhered to, the ability to dismiss rules on a whim does not set up an organization with the ability to count on perceived, monitored and manageable safety protocols.
Because of these guidelines, other XDPA organizations are not permitted to shoot with us, other than once as a trial under strict supervision, due to their training and abilities being unknown.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
IDPA does not charge and refuses to charge for a holster course. As mandated by our rule book a new shooter orientation program will be initiated at IDPA clubs to look after the needs of new shooters. This training should be carried out by official IDPA SO's, but in certain circumstances can be supplied by experienced action shooting competitors.
As expressed to me by the CFO for Ontario, holster certification is not mandatory in any capacity for action shooting. However, common sense dictates that it should be carried out. In any event, IDPA competitors using IDPA rules, with their classification cards properly filled in and signed by an IDPA SO will provide proof of holster competency. Unclassified shooters regardless of their time in the organization will be given stricter supervision by IDPA SO's and Instructors.
This is why IDPA rules are strictly adhered to, the ability to dismiss rules on a whim does not set up an organization with the ability to count on perceived, monitored and manageable safety protocols.
Because of these guidelines, other XDPA organizations are not permitted to shoot with us, other than once as a trial under strict supervision, due to their training and abilities being unknown.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
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Legal Issues between IDPA and CDP.
Any actions expressed or implied with reference to copyright infringement lawsuits involving such material as the IDPA rulebooks, IDPA internet down loadable software and information, as well as targets are speculative at best. These issues are well above my pay-grade and interest me little. I will say that the statement made in a recent CSSA magazine with regard to the issuance of IDPA rulebooks to CDP members is ludicrous at best and typical of their mismanaged organization and affiliation with CSSA. This will not happen so stop checking your mailbox. I realize that CDP in the past has pointed people towards the IDPA website for information, however, this may or may not still be going on, and soon will be pointless as this information area will require a password. IDPA and CDP are in no way now, or have ever been affiliated, contrary to what David Burke told me and many other on several occasions. Insinuating that there would have been some sort of union if not for the interference of myself and others that got involved with IDPA is ridiculous and untrue.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
Any actions expressed or implied with reference to copyright infringement lawsuits involving such material as the IDPA rulebooks, IDPA internet down loadable software and information, as well as targets are speculative at best. These issues are well above my pay-grade and interest me little. I will say that the statement made in a recent CSSA magazine with regard to the issuance of IDPA rulebooks to CDP members is ludicrous at best and typical of their mismanaged organization and affiliation with CSSA. This will not happen so stop checking your mailbox. I realize that CDP in the past has pointed people towards the IDPA website for information, however, this may or may not still be going on, and soon will be pointless as this information area will require a password. IDPA and CDP are in no way now, or have ever been affiliated, contrary to what David Burke told me and many other on several occasions. Insinuating that there would have been some sort of union if not for the interference of myself and others that got involved with IDPA is ridiculous and untrue.
Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
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