IDPA/CDPA Whinning and #####ing

Steve David said:
True, but on the flip side, we do not buy guns to protect ourselves! Once again, the bottom line is to have fun. As I have explained several time already, we have not had one complaint or issue about the training course and that includes shooters from other disciplines, IPSC, PPC and police officers, who are already permitted to shoot with us, they have still chosen to take the course.
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Did I comment about the training course? (NO) I just pointed out that your statement about IDPA being geared toward experienced shooters is not what the IDPA manual says.

I took the CDP course. I have no beefs about it. I thought it was worthwhile.
 
Rudy H said:
Did I comment about the training course? (NO) I just pointed out that your statement about IDPA being geared toward experienced shooters is not what the IDPA manual says.

I took the CDP course. I have no beefs about it. I thought it was worthwhile.
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No you did not and I meant nothing offensive towards what you said, my appologies if it came across that way.

The CDP is good, and as I am sure you can agree with, it is even more fun to shoot matches.

It all boiled down to this for us. It was not a smoke and mirrors thing or there were no hidden agendas as previously accused, we shot CDP/IDAP style shooting in 2002 until the range issues came about. That put it on hold until the range issues were solved, that took a long time thanks to the CFO as many of my fellow Ontario shooters can attest to. Once everything was inplace and all range aprovals were complete, CDP was the first Defnsive Pistol style shooting to be allowed, so that is what we did. Had IDPA been here first, we would have done that. I personally would not care which one, aslong as we can do it and I welcome all IDPA and styles, PPC, IPSC, Police Officers to come and enjoy it.
 
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Guyze! WTF is going on here??
What's with all the hostility on some peoples part against CDP?
I took the CDP course back in Nov/06, and feel the 50.00 was well spent.
It gave 'holster qualification', and allowed me (and manyothers),many hours of great competitive shooting.
It seems that something that should be a lot of fun, has turned into a
'p**sing contest'.
Why?
You are falling in the old 'divide and conquer' trap here! The last thing on earth we need is that.
Perhaps a spirit of co-operation and acceptance of each others choices
would not only serve this issue well, but also our sport as a whole!
 
Apparently there has been considerable controversy and comment regarding CDP recently. At least this is the feedback I am receiving from numerous sources. It seems important to establish some facts, which may be helpful for those interested in the action shooting sports regardless of discipline.


1/ The CFO conducts range inspections and determines range suitability for various shooting activities. Depending on the range physical characteristics ranges may upgrade so that additional activities can be pursued. Each range or club executive will have these parameters in writing from the CFO. This is true for Ontario and since these are federal regs. it is assumed this is reasonably consistent across Canada.

2/ Within the guidelines as noted in 1 above each club or club executive is at liberty to determine what type of shooting activities they wish to allow at their facility.

3/ Depending on activities pursued it is the responsibility of each club executive to ensure that all participants for that activity are properly trained and safe. This is particularly true when it comes to the sports that have handguns drawn from holsters.

4/ Each club controls the level and type of training they require for each handgun sport for club level matches.

5/ Each shooting sport determines it’s own requirements for sanctioned matches

6/ Canadian Sport Shooting Association (CSSA) has had a mandate from the CFO for many years to provide courses in safe handgun usage.

7/ All the Canadian Defensive Pistol (CDP) courses are developed and administered under the direction of CSSA.

8/ There are currently three recognized and valid courses available for handgun holster training.

They are:

CDP Competitor Course

PPC Holster Course

IPSC Black Badge Course




9/ Valid courses embrace five factors:

a/ written manual
b/ lecture
c/ live fire training
d/ live fire test
e/ written test

Both CDP and PPC incorporate all five components and to the best of my knowledge so does IPSC.
All three are administered and conducted by long term recognized associations in the shooting community.


10/ CDP recognizes both Black Badge & PPC trained individuals for its sanctioned matches. We reserve the right to observe an individual or request they go through a brief orientation process prior to actually shooting a match.

11/ CDP is similar to IDPA but has rules specific to Canadian law and will shortly have it’s own rulebook.

12/ IDPA does not have a holster course of any description. It does have a Safety Officer Course.

13/ Individuals who have been trained under the IDPA Safety Officer Course are qualified to act as range officers or run matches for IDPA only. Those trained as instructors are qualified to teach others how to do the above.

14/ In addition to the Competitor Course, CDP has courses for Instructors and Range Officers.

I hope the above has been informative and we can look forward to your active participation in a great sport.

As Canadian Defensive Pistol we will continue to “Target Safety, Fun & Proficiency”

Shoot straight and quick and you will have a great day.


David Burke
National Coordinator
Canadian Defensive Pistol
 
QN said:
CDP course. $150
IDPA course.FREE!
Which one do you think will help Canadian shooting sports more?
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The CDP course I took a couple of months ago was only $50. I was already a CSSA member so the CSSA membership cost did not apply. If you currently are not a CSSA member then why not join? The same course is being offered for the same price here later this month. I assume the cost could be different in other location depending on expenses like range rental costs.

As stated above, if you passed the Black Badge course then the CDP course is not a requirement.

Trailrider said:
6/ Canadian Sport Shooting Association (CSSA) has had a mandate from the CFO for many years to provide courses in safe handgun usage.
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Isn't this from the Ontario CFO? As far as I know Canadian Sport Shooting Association (CSSA) does not have this mandate from all other CFOs.

It seems to me that the Ontario CFO dictates to CSSA and CSSA then applies this to the rest of Canadian shooters. In effect extending requirements that do not exist due to the Ontario focus of the organization. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

11/ CDP is similar to IDPA but has rules specific to Canadian law and will shortly have it’s own rulebook.
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Is there really a purpose to this? Other than the barrel length issue is there a need to change anything? Or are there other Ontario centered issues that need to be addressed?
 
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bclinehand said:
Mebbe this thread could be merged with the other *DPA thread.. putting the info all in one spot is more useful
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You are right, I think it woudl be even better if those of us who like to shoot it do so and those of use who have serious issue with it do not. Even better yet, leave it alone now. It came from Dave Burke how it works, lets just enjoy it.
 
Call the organ grinders to the table, and leave the monkeys to shoot. I have a match this weekend. And next. Who could ask for more?
 
QN said:
CDP course. $150
IDPA course.FREE!
Which one do you think will help Canadian shooting sports more?
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The CDP course that TSE was offering was $100.00 for members. If I didn't already have a black badge, I'd consider attending.
 
My only question , as a new shooter to the sport, is why did CDP start at all?
IDPA allows country specific laws. Why start something different using the same rulebook and targets instead of starting up IDPA? Seems dodgy to me.


Won't stop me from shooting both IDPA and CDP though.
 
dinsdale said:
My only question , as a new shooter to the sport, is why did CDP start at all?
IDPA allows country specific laws. Why start something different using the same rulebook and targets instead of starting up IDPA? Seems dodgy to me.


Won't stop me from shooting both IDPA and CDP though.
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CDP was approved first buy the CFO in Ontario and for us 3 years of waiting was enough, we just wanted to shoot.
 
What I mean is, before CDP was here, who decided that it was better to take the IDPA rulebook and targets and call it CDP instead of just starting IDPA up here? Why did they do so? Did they try to bring IDPA up first?

Cheers!

Edit: I'm asking to try and get a history of CDP as there isn't much info out there.
 
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"There are currently three recognized and valid courses available for handgun holster training."

Recognised by who? CSSA? The CFO in Alberta and B.C. have never heard of CDP so it can't be them. So who? To my knowledge there is no "government" mandated holster course requirement in Canada and in the interests of keeping government out of our sport I sincerely hope there are no organizations championing such a scheme. Handgun sports have enough barriors to participation now...we don't need more.

I wouldn't assume C 68 is administered equally across Canada David.
There is significant evidence that it is not. From what others have written to appears the divide takes place where some Provinces embraced C 68 (Ontario) and supported the Federal Legislation and those that didn't (B.C., Alberta, Sask etc). Those provinces where the Feds administer C 68 ie CFO's there appears to be a much more liberal interpretation of the firearm registration and ATT process. eg. OUr ATT"s are not held by Clubs like I am told they are in Ontario nor are our Club Secretaries involved in the process. OUr ATT"s are open as to time and here in B.C. cover all of western Canada for attending club shoots, as well as all US border points. I have been told this is not the case in Ontario.

To me what is offensive in the extreme is how CSSA, who proport to be a responsible national organization openly plagerizes IDPA copyright both in the use of their rule book and target design. It is one thing for a club to shoot IDPA style shooting using IDPA rules, it is quite another for CSSA to do so at the expense of another shooting organization.

Since Canada has no laws that restrict IDPA participation in Canada, in fact IDPA has been in Canada for a number of years any claim that the IDPA rule book allows for such copyright infringement is thin at best.

Here in Terrace nobody approaches the line at an IDPA match unless the SO is satisfied the shooter has some proficiency in holster use. Our club runs monthly skills & drills nights for the benefit of new shooters as well as members. It is not until the SO is satisfied the shooter has proficiency in holster usage that he is allowed to shoot in our matches. At this point it is important to understand we are not faced with hundreds of applicants. One on one training is provided and from our experience, unless the indivdual is devoid of motor skills, it doesn't take long for new shooters to catch on to the skill sets. It is our experience that new shooters are particularily attentive, want "to do it right", understand they have a learning curve to follow and when move to the line tend to spend their time being careful, going slow and following safe gun handling. As their experience rises, so does their speed and skill.

We have yet to have an applicant come forward who has never handled a gun before.

CDP may survive as a shooting sport or it may evolve into a training arm of CSSA. From what I have seen and heard it won't be associated with IDPA nor was that ever contemplated by IDPA contrary to what have some have implied in the past.

Take Care

Bob
 
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