IDPA-POCO-Members [UPDATED-PROPOSAL TURNED DOWN FOR 3RD YEAR IN A ROW. SEE POST#285]

Would you be interested if there was IDPA at Poco Club?

  • Yes, I would like to see IDPA at Poco Club

    Votes: 106 74.6%
  • No, just drive to Chilliwack for your IDPA fix

    Votes: 36 25.4%

  • Total voters
    142
Drew, if memory serves me correctly, you have shot many many IPSC matches at PoCo since not renewing your IPSCBC membership and they have never told you that you needed to take a range user course over and above the BB you previously had.

Am I mistaken? Has something happened recently where they told you that you were not qualified to shoot their club matches?
 
DVC1911 and appropriately named Slavex,
Truth hurts, huh ?
Prove me wrong and allow in IDPA and past proved members without all the B.S. 'extra fees' and 'qualifications' then.

I don't usually get involved in these matters and will likely regret it as you seem angry based on some kind of history with some of the POCO Executive. While I am older I've only been a POCO member a few years. I had a lot of prior experience with firearms but in this day and age liability issues have increased insurance rates dramatically so I didn't mind spending a bit of money to ensure that we stay safe and within the bounds of due diligence as far as the greater good of the club is concerned. I trust that the money spent is accounted for during the annual audit and I was satisfied with the accounting at the recent AGM. A lot of people give their time and effort to keep the club going so that's my 2c as a guy who shoots a bit of IPSC and wouldn't mind trying IDPA.

Mike
 
Slavex and I have no influence or involvement with the PCDHFC or IDPA. So there is nothing for us to prove. Every club has the right to run there organization as they see fit, and the "members" will make the final decision on whether or not they are doing a good job. Your personal vendetta with the "Puppet Master" really does not matter to anyone, except you. All it does is show that you are living in the past.

This forum has no bearing or influence on what PCDHFC does. The majority of people on this forum are not even members of PCDHFC. So unless people are prepared to join PCDHFC and make changes from within the organization, it is foolish to think we going to force PCDHFC to make any changes.

Let put something in perspective:

I cannot remember the last time you participated in a sanction IPSC event. It has to be at least ten years. As for putting on events, It has to be 15 to 20 years, possible longer, since you have been a match director. (Note: I guess I can be classified as a old-timer....There are not many of us that are still in this sport).

Why should any organization recognized what you did 10, 15 or 20 years ago? It has no bearing on what organizations need to deal with today. The rules, people, and political climate has changed. No one can afford to take the chance on any individual claiming they know what they are doing.

So if you are not prepared to work within the existing framework of rules, regulations, and expectations, then go do something else.

DVC
 
Wow! It sounds like you guys go back a loooonnngg way! I'm just a NKOTB, and I hope you guys don't mind me saying this, but can't we all sit down over a cup of coffee and work things out? I'm sure toes have been stepped on and ego's bruised, but, for the greater good of the sport, could we all just sit together and work out our differences?

I mean, the Timmies is just down the road eh :)
And after all that's done, we could meet at the Arms Pub...just up the road. Geez, I love Poco...just so convenient :D
 
Drew, if memory serves me correctly, you have shot many many IPSC matches at PoCo since not renewing your IPSCBC membership and they have never told you that you needed to take a range user course over and above the BB you previously had.

Am I mistaken? Has something happened recently where they told you that you were not qualified to shoot their club matches?

Beagle,
After attempting to re-new my PoCo membership upon 'getting back on my feet' after expensive divorce forced me to sell many of my prized guns to pay lawyers fees, I was told, after frequent e-mails, by the 'Range Master' or whatever he wants to call himself, that because my membership was slightly over 2 years expired I would have to pay to take a 'range familiarisation' course, and 'holster course'. He knows darn well that I am perfectly 'familiar' with PCDHFC (ya think, after decades of membership ? ) and perfectly capable with any holsters. Blatant, petty, cash grab, nothing new.
So I joined TMSA, guess what, NO 'range familiarisation', NO 'holster course', NO 'extra fees', just 'Welcome back', go shoot, which I did, slow, but lots of 'A's' as usual, nothing new.
As many of you know, since breaking my back and hip and generally getting old, I'm not as fast as I used to be (was I EVER ?), neither can I do ALL THE WORK INVOLVED IN BEING A MATCH DIRECTOR OR MUCH ELSE . Most of the matches I put on, I put a hell of a lot of physical work into or spend 24 straight hours setting up a match like the 'Miller Match' at POCO. I told the 'match committee', who promised me help, if I didn't get any, I'd never do that again. I help out with what I can, but that's not much anymore.
Re: IPSC, I got 'fed-up' with all the 'you HAVE to join BC Fed', you HAVE to go here, you HAVE to go there, you HAVE to have you RO card signed, you HAVE to re-qualify as a VOLUNTEER RO, at the infamous KAMLOOPS (or Kelowna ?) IPSC/BC AGM and the 'We'll keep taking the vote until we get it OUR way fiasco', I turned in my IPSC membership in disgust at the lack of 'democratic voting procedure' and came out labelled as a "Dissident Element", darn right, ONE VOTE and done is correct, NOT 3 or 4 votes 'til we get it OUR way, I'll dissent on that any day ! Since then I've only shot "Club IPSC Matches", and yes, a lot, which is fine with me, no HAVE to's, and a lot less traveling !
Re: 'Black Badge'. Was shooting IPSC, Trap/Skeet, Metallic (pistol) Silhouette, PPC, Black Powder, Military Rifle, 3-Gun, Tactical(like IDPA), etc., LONG before BB was even invented and LONG after. NEVER was asked for one, NEVER NEEDED one, still don't have/NEED one. Even after it's invention nobody ever asked ex- if she had one, and she started after it's invention, WAY after. Since then added a couple of 'End of Trail' s to the experience, now THAT'S 'different' - Cowboy Action Shooting and the big Championship 'End of Trail' ! Yet NOBODY EVER asked us for any 'Black Badges', strange, huh ? Guess it was too OBVIUOS, BB was NOT needed.
Re: PCDHFC . I would like to renew my decades of membership. One primary reason is it's relatively FLAT as compared to TMSA and thusly much easier on back and pinned hip. Another is there's more going on there and if IDPA went in as well, so much the better. It's also closer, drive wise. I also, like many other clubs, have many good friends there, and fond memories of PoCo.
HOWEVER, I was told that I'd have to pay $20/30/40, whatever, to take this 'range familiarisation and holster course' because I was a non-member for over 2 years, which to me is ridiculous and nothing but a cash grab, again. I've 'Day-carded' at PoCo a couple of times since, even gave new wife a 'guided-tour', looks exactly FAMILIAR to me ! Still haven't had a gun fall out of any of my holsters EVER yet either, nor have I shot myself in the foot when 'drawing' either, so I guess THAT still works ! So, to pay money to be told something both he and I know , I know , is pretty ridiculous , except HE gets MY money.
Now, if I can buy a regular priced, single membership, and for some reason they want me to show up and show me where the backstop's are, and which way is still as 'downrange' as it always was, not to climb on the backstops (as if I COULD !), and see if my pistols trigger is covered by the holster (they ARE) and that I can't 'load' other than on command, or shoot other than when the range is 'hot', etc., etc., I WILL . The PROBLEM is PAYING for what I already KNOW ! I mean do YOU buy the same 'American Handgunner' you just bought yesterday ? Unless you LOST it, no. I may be "Dissident", but I haven't LOST it .
And YES, EVERY province/country/nation/continent/whatever, "NEEDS ONE", the "Voice in the Wilderness", the 'spitter into the wind', the rebel, the Lech Walesa , the Cesar Chavez , the "Dissident Element", to say ENOUGH ! I don't liken myself to them, I just wish there were MORE who would say enough, I'm sick of paying this, paying that, all to do the same thing that I already paid for and know perfectly well .
If WE weren't rebellious by nature , we wouldn't own guns , now would we ?
That answer your question, Beag. ?
 
P.S. I'd like some "special", "trophy", "15 to 20 year", old cheese from "Ontario" with that 'whine', too ! And it's OBVIOUS.

As the 'tag' says; Those who forget History are bound to repeat it. Winston Churchill
 
Drew, just to clarify.
You have an issue with the PoCo board of directors with regard to your membership privileges and access to the range as a member.

Your membership rights should not have any bearing on what IDPA accepts as part of its requirements for making sure it's competitors are certified. IDPA isn't even at PoCo yet, and you seem to be complaining that they won't let you play.

As this section of the forum is really about "Action shooting games" not "Club policies and procedures" you might look for a different section of the forum that might be more sympathetic to your issues.
 
I doubt he's going to find anyone sympathetic to his #####ing HB. Rules are rules, either you follow them, or you don't. If Poco has a specific set of rules that they have voted into place, then they must be followed. It doesn't matter how great you think you are/were, the rules are for everyone.
Just a note, as you obviously haven't been paying attention, I have nothing to do with Poco at all, other than going there to shoot IPSC matches when they hold them. I am however the President at another club. If I ended up moving closer to Poco for work, and it made sense for me to join, even with my experience, which is pretty much equal to Drew, plus all the LEO courses and RSO/Range Warden courses etc, I know I'd still have to take their courses, pay their user fees, if I wanted to use the range. It's their club, they make the rules. Which is what the IDPA guys need to sort out now, and get their club up and going there.
 
"One set of rules for everyone"

That way no one can ever be accused of preferential treatment...or of unfairly targeting someone...pretty simple concept.
 
I doubt he's going to find anyone sympathetic to his #####ing HB. Rules are rules, either you follow them, or you don't. If Poco has a specific set of rules that they have voted into place, then they must be followed. It doesn't matter how great you think you are/were, the rules are for everyone.
Just a note, as you obviously haven't been paying attention, I have nothing to do with Poco at all, other than going there to shoot IPSC matches when they hold them. I am however the President at another club. If I ended up moving closer to Poco for work, and it made sense for me to join, even with my experience, which is pretty much equal to Drew, plus all the LEO courses and RSO/Range Warden courses etc, I know I'd still have to take their courses, pay their user fees, if I wanted to use the range. It's their club, they make the rules. Which is what the IDPA guys need to sort out now, and get their club up and going there.

I hear what Slavex is saying. I live close to PCDHFC and have been a member most of the last 10 years, and agree totally with playing by a club's rules, for sure. However, if the rules are not in keeping with the times as well as the desires of the membership, why not change the rules or improve the way things are done?

IDPA is a growing sport....it is beginner friendly, it is inexpensive to get into, it is fun and it is safe. What is there to not like? What I cannot understand is why some members of the Board are so reluctant to allowing IDPA into POCO? Until I see the logic, I think these members are being unreasonable and selfish by insisting on keeping IDPA out.

One thing I am sure, IDPA WILL GET INTO POCO.
It is just a matter of time. It is not a question of if, but when.

This issue is turning into a political one. When the truth comes out, the general membership will vote in enough new and progressive blood into the Board. That is how democracy works. IF the existing system is not working for the members, that system needs to be changed or improved. If IDPA is not allowed this year, it will be welcomed next year or the next.

Look at the running results of this poll. It is very clear that people want IDPA in POCO. Even if non-members replied to this poll, whether pro or con, the POLL still delivers the message clearly.....an overwhelming majority of shooters want to see IDPA in POCO....how hard is that to see? One needs to be blind or blinded by unreasonable motives not to see that. Live and let live.

Even if this is a non-controlled poll, where POCO members and non-members can vote...the POLL shows that if IDPA is in POCO, it will be popular. The non-members may turn into members...who knows? Who wins? The answer is obvious, gentlemen. IDPA will be good for the club and for the shooting community at large.

Can the IDPA detractors in the Board, honestly say that this result will be bad for the club? If not, then they have no choice but to vote in favor of IDPA.

A POCO Board that sincerely is working for the benefit of its members should vote-in IDPA. If not, then I say to those IDPA detractors in the POCO Board...boys, your true colors are showing, wake up.

I was at the range today, spoke to some shooters. Many were receptive to the PETITION, but seem to know nothing about what is happening in the club right now. A little education is all that is needed. The membership needs to know the truth, and the truth will come out.
 
[/QUOTE] IDPA is a growing sport....it is beginner friendly, it is inexpensive to get into, it is fun and it is safe. What is there to not like?

One thing I am sure, IDPA WILL GET INTO POCO.
It is just a matter of time. It is not a question of if, but when.

If IDPA is not allowed this year, it will be welcomed next year or the next.

Look at the running results of this poll. It is very clear that people want IDPA in POCO. Even if non-members replied to this poll, whether pro or con, the POLL still delivers the message clearly.....an overwhelming majority of shooters want to see IDPA in POCO....how hard is that to see? One needs to be blind or blinded by unreasonable motives not to see that. Live and let live.

Even if this is a non-controlled poll, where POCO members and non-members can vote...the POLL shows that if IDPA is in POCO, it will be popular. The non-members may turn into members...who knows? Who wins? The answer is obvious, gentlemen. IDPA will be good for the club and for the shooting community at large.

A POCO Board that sincerely is working for the benefit of its members should vote-in IDPA. If not, then I say to those IDPA detractors in the POCO Board...boys, your true colors are showing, wake up.[/QUOTE]

I am sure Rottboy and those who would like to see IDPA in Poco will not give up. If they vote IDPA out this time, we will return in force and have a BOD that reflect the wishes of the members.

Do the right thing and you might keep your treasured position. Go the other way and reap the consequences of your actions.
 
Latest news from the Poco Club President

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Chuck Zuckerman <chuck.zuckerman@gmail.com> wrote:

The Club is not interested in this activity. I thought it was made clear to you last year and again at the last Executive Meeting. For you to insist that you are not going away is arrogant and in no way forwards your request in a favourable light. We do not have the space or the time with all facilities booked and 2 hour wait times for range use.
Please do not pursue this issue.

Chuck Zuckerman
President
PC&DH&FC

My reply:

Greetings Chuck, No. 1, no one made it "clear to me" in any of the Executive Meetings (2009, 2010 & 2011) that the Club is not interested in this activity. This is the reason why I kept on pursuing club affiliation with IDPA.
As for my being arrogant, let me state that in all my presentations, I have obtained prior permission to attend and present my case. In no instance did anyone indicate that I should not do so.
As for all the facilities being booked, I beg to disagree. If you look at the latest newsletter calendar for March - August, 2011, on the weekend days alone, there are at least 24 weekend days that are unutilized by any committee for ranges 3 to 6.
Being a full member of Poco, and with the members who have approached me to continue to pursue this matter, its only right that I pursue this "issue".
Please have an open mind and listen to what we can contribute to the club positively, rather than negatively. Hopefully you can see the justification in listening to what other members in the club would like to see proper rather than closing constructive activities.
IDPA is an internationally recognized organization which runs club events safely and for the benefit (financially and logistically) for many clubs all over the globe. Hopefully I can look for your understanding and support in the future.
Many thanks - Poco member #15034
 
I guess it is a very clear message from Chuck Zuckerman. Even before the 12th April BOD meeting. BTW the petition was removed by the club. So the officials of Poco is not being democratic because the BOD is limiting the communication from members to other members. That is prime example of arrogance. I went back to all the posts that Rottboy had made and all I can see is trying to work with others. There is no hint of arrogance in any of his posts.

The BOD is refusing to accept an internationally recognized form of shooting sport. IDPA is on par with IPSC and UIT. What is it that the present BOD is so scared of? What gives the president of the club the right to dismiss Rottboy's presentation on his own even before a meeting of the BOD had taken place. Does it mean individual members of the BOD have no say in any matter? This is prime example of arrogance. Dismissing the wishes of the members is not only arrogant but also ignorant.

I guess the battle lines are drawn now. See you at the AGM.
 
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Or maybe someone else delivering the message about IDPA, because the message that is being sent obviously is not helping the IDPA cause.........
 
Or maybe someone else delivering the message about IDPA, because the message that is being sent obviously is not helping the IDPA cause.........[/Q

Please be clear of what you are trying to say. What is the problem with the message and which messenger are you referring to?
 
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