IDPA-POCO-Members [UPDATED-PROPOSAL TURNED DOWN FOR 3RD YEAR IN A ROW. SEE POST#285]

Would you be interested if there was IDPA at Poco Club?

  • Yes, I would like to see IDPA at Poco Club

    Votes: 106 74.6%

  • No, just drive to Chilliwack for your IDPA fix

    Votes: 36 25.4%
  • Total voters
    142
So who the heck are you?

DVC1911 said:
Or maybe someone else delivering the message about IDPA, because the message that is being sent obviously is not helping the IDPA cause.........
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OK, this has now really gotten my goat. Here's what we have so far:

We've got a president who tore down our petition at the club. Thus effectively killing the petition and losing all the names on it.
We've got someone else here (DVC1911) whom apparently knows so much that he says the message about IDPA is lost because of who is delivering it. Who the heck are you? The Club President?
We've got a club apparently not interested in IDPA, although we have collected numerous names and a thread with over 5,000 views and a poll with more than 70% voting for yes to IDPA in Poco.

I'm not sure what's going on at Poco, but to summarily dismiss the efforts of your members is not very becoming of a Club President or BOD. A few of us were preparing to attend the next Exec Meeting, when this was supposed to go to vote by the board. I guess its a pointless exercise now...seeing as the Club President has come out with such an openly dismissive email, bearing as a reason, the laughable concept that there is no time or space at the club.

So what's the next step? Perhaps you can advise us DVC1911...since you seem to know intimate details that none of us are privy to.

I can tell you one thing though: A club BOD, like any other governing body, is elected by its members. Actions such as tearing down petitions and dismissive emails shows a callous disregard for members. Not good at all. Geez, and I had such high hopes that shooters would support other shooters in a shooting sport.
 
DVC1911 is not Murray, or the club President. however it might be worth taking his advice and looking at how the message is being delivered.
 
Slavex said:
DVC1911 is not Murray, or the club President. however it might be worth taking his advice and looking at how the message is being delivered.
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Perhaps the question should be:

How was the message received?

Slavex, I wish you knew how things are really handled by some POCO EC/Board members. Then your point of view may change.

If you knew what I now know...you will be outraged.

For the Club president to order the takedown of our petition is unconscionable, a serious abuse and misuse of authority and a direct suppression of the right of POCO members to express their wishes in a democratic manner. It was an impulsive and poorly thought-out move, at the very least extremely ill-advised.

I would like to quote from the Constitution of PCDHFC:
1. e. to provide safe venues for all target shooting activities.

If I understand English correctly, the word "all" is self-expalantory. This means that the Board, if it is true to the Constitution, has no choice but to listen to voice of the members....WE WANT IDPA IN POCO...and they have no reason to ignore our voice. To make matters worse, the President himself actually trampled on our members' right to be heard by ordering our Petition with many names on it, removed.

The anti-IDPA faction of Board gave a lame excuse (they said that there are no slots in the range schedules...which is already proven wrong..to wit, there are 24 weekend days available into the summer) and they have no recourse now, except to approve IDPA in POCO.
 
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I have been called alot of things, but "Murray", now I am insulted...... :)

I am not Murray or Chuck. Murray would never waste his time on a Forum.

I did belong to PCDHFC and serve on the Board for many years, so I am quite familiar with how they work. (Note: I am currently not a member of PCDHFC, but I keep tabs on how the club is running)

I was present for one of the IDPA presentation, and for my own interest I enquired about the others ones. They were poorly done. The information was incomplete.

Unfortunately I do not have the time or interest to assist the IDPA agenda, as my efforts are focused in other areas.

It was interesting reviewing all of the comments on this thread. Any one that said they had issues with IDPA were attacked. There was no discussion. There was no understanding even considered as to why previous requests for IDPA at PCDHFC failed. So if no one is listening, why would anyone bother to respond........

PCDHFC is one of the largest clubs in the Lower Mainland with over 2500 members, multiple disciplines and they only have SEVEN ranges. Between Trap, PPC, IPSC, etc and rentals, the ranges are booked solid. What Rottboy failed to realize when he made the following: "at least 24 weekend days that are unutilized by any committee for ranges 3 to 6." is the members. PCDHFC can not keep closing down the ranges for disciplines, because the paying members will have no access. It was one of the prime reasons that I left, I found it very difficult to get access on to the range on the weekends because they were always busy.

If you want IDPA to succeed, clean up the presentation, and get the message across. Otherwise it will never get started at PCDHFC.

Just my 2 cents......DVC
 
DVC1911 said:
I have been called alot of things, but "Murray", now I am insulted...... :)

I am not Murray or Chuck. Murray would never waste his time on a Forum.

I did belong to PCDHFC and serve on the Board for many years, so I am quite familiar with how they work. (Note: I am currently not a member of PCDHFC, but I keep tabs on how the club is running)

I was present for one of the IDPA presentation, and for my own interest I enquired about the others ones. They were poorly done. The information was incomplete.

Unfortunately I do not have the time or interest to assist the IDPA agenda, as my efforts are focused in other areas.

It was interesting reviewing all of the comments on this thread. Any one that said they had issues with IDPA were attacked. There was no discussion. There was no understanding even considered as to why previous requests for IDPA at PCDHFC failed. So if no one is listening, why would anyone bother to respond........

PCDHFC is one of the largest clubs in the Lower Mainland with over 2500 members, multiple disciplines and they only have SEVEN ranges. Between Trap, PPC, IPSC, etc and rentals, the ranges are booked solid. What Rottboy failed to realize when he made the following: "at least 24 weekend days that are unutilized by any committee for ranges 3 to 6." is the members. PCDHFC can not keep closing down the ranges for disciplines, because the paying members will have no access. It was one of the prime reasons that I left, I found it very difficult to get access on to the range on the weekends because they were always busy.

If you want IDPA to succeed, clean up the presentation, and get the message across. Otherwise it will never get started at PCDHFC.

Just my 2 cents......DVC
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Thanks for your 2-cent thoughts DVC. :p

I for one would be very interested to know what was wrong with the presentation. Pray tell.

I'm not going into a pot-calling-kettle-black as to whom said what and who is not listening...but its telling that when a group of us try to get the rest of the members interested, that the medium used (petition) is just torn down. So really, who's really closing up their ears and saying lalalalala?

Regarding your lack of range time, well, again, I would beg to differ. At one of the Range User Courses, we were told that the lower ranges were UNDERUTILISED!! That's right. The BOD found that very very few people were using the ranges. I can't remember the exact number, but I believe it was a figure that was so low it would be negligible as a percentage.

So why did you, for one, did not use the lower ranges before leaving the club? I think I already know the answer to this, but lets hear it from you...:D
 
DVC1911 said:
.................the ranges are booked solid. What Rottboy failed to realize when he made the following: "at least 24 weekend days that are unutilized by any committee for ranges 3 to 6." is the members. PCDHFC can not keep closing down the ranges for disciplines, because the paying members will have no access. It was one of the prime reasons that I left, I found it very difficult to get access on to the range on the weekends because they were always busy.
If you want IDPA to succeed, clean up the presentation, and get the message across. Otherwise it will never get started at PCDHFC.
Just my 2 cents......DVC
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Your 2 cents makes sense, however, since you weren't present at any of the presentations made in the previous years, including 2011, the issue of range time was definitely addressed. As previously stated, IDPA's intent is to make use of un-utilized range time. It was clearly stated at the last EC meeting that we would avail of any range time that the club's committees (and including all individual club members) are not using. If weekend days are not free then weekdays are more than available (especially Mondays and Thursdays for ranges 3-6)..
The presentations were all done formally (in writting) during the past three years always passing through the proper channels. Additionally, all the questions asked during the EC presentations were clearly answered. If the message isn't clear enough by now, the lines of communications have been established to address any further queries. Therefore, its specific suggestions that would be helpful, rather than assuming generalizations based on emotional conjecture.
 
Chuck did not tear down the petitions. I saw the person that did, do not know who he was, but it was not CHuck.

I was a director and trustee of the club, and as such had full access to use any range. The ranges were always busy and required that I had to share bays. Unless the other people using the bays were practising IPSC, it was impossible for me to practice.

From my experience and the times that I had to go, the club was very busy.

Whoever told you at the RUC that the ranges were underutilized, was misinformed.

DVC
 
Rottboy: Actually I was at the first IDPA presentation.

I am not going to get in a debate on this forum, because as I said before I do not think people are listening.

THis is the only advice that I can offer. Get someone else to make the presentation. The last three attempts have been unsuccessful, so you need to change your tactics.

DVC
 
DVC1911 said:
Rottboy: Actually I was at the first IDPA presentation.
I am not going to get in a debate on this forum,.............
THis is the only advice that I can offer. Get someone else .......The last three attempts have been unsuccessful, so you need to change your tactics.
DVC
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If you attended the first IDPA presentation then you know the contents of the formal letter presented (copies were furnished to all EC members by the club secretary). Debates are healthy and would be constructive if specific facts can be referred to in making comments. Should something have been missed in the letter, then the Q/A session that followed was the venue to clear up further queries.
As for your only advise, tactics and messengers may eventually have to change, but for now, I continue to provide my time and efforts to achieving IDPA affiliation at PDHFC.
BTW, I shoot at PDHFC weekly (usually on Thursdays, Fridays or Sat). Being RUC certified, I have never had to wait to use any of the lower ranges (3-6).
 
Thanks for your comments DVC1911. They are appreciated. I guess we'll all have to sit down and look at that presentation again and figure out what is wrong with it, especially if the EC won't tell us. :rolleyes:

BTW, the person who did tell me that the lower ranges were under-utilised was the person whose name insults you. :D He told me (the group taking the course) that the BOD has all the figures and they know exactly how many people use the course, and its definitely under-utilised. Now it KNOW for a fact that you're not him, cos he told me himself. :p

I think it was the main reason that they were running RUC's. Because, as you know, nobody is allowed to use the lower ranges unless they were Range-User Certified. I guess not many members wanted to go to the trouble to do that. I know that when I first joined, there were no Range-User course offered. I was told to wait and as soon as they came up, I signed up.

FWIW, the petition was torn down by one of the range officers, under direct orders from the Club Prez (or so I'm told). No reason for the RO to lie, but if it is indeed untrue (that the Club Prez ordered it), then I apologize sincerely.

But what if it is true? What say you then? It sure sounds to me like a much stronger "attack" than anything said in these forums, no?
 
DVC1911 said:
Chuck did not tear down the petitions. I saw the person that did, do not know who he was, but it was not CHuck.
DVC
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I spoke to the RO who took down the Petition. He said that he was ordered by the Club President to take it down.

I asked that the Petition be returned to me but the RO said that it was on its way to Zuckerman.
 
DVC1911 said:
I am not going to get in a debate on this forum, because as I said before I do not think people are listening.THis is the only advice that I can offer. Get someone else to make the presentation. The last three attempts have been unsuccessful, so you need to change your tactics.
DVC
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You nailed it. The presentation fell on deaf ears, ears that are not willing to listen. It is not the messenger, it is not the message, it is the deaf listener that is the problem. It is the job of the board to listen. For the record, not everyone on the board is deaf and close-minded....only some.

A board that is not receptive to the wishes of the members is not doing its job. What the board must remember is that they are there to serve the membership, not themselves. The running results of this poll bear out the fact that more people want IDPA than not.

You suggest someone else to make the presentation? Why? Who?

I am going to the range later this morning. If you are there, talk to me and I will tell you personally what has happened behind the scenes. PM me and I will give you my cell phone number so we can make contact at the range.
 
7.62mm said:
Sounds like you guys have quite the Soap Opera going on there. I would be seriously considering a move on the BOD if they are screwing the pooch this badly!
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Agreed! Please run for the board. There are many good men in there, we know for a fact, but there are not enough.

Its time the majority of the members are given the proper service they deserve.
 
easyrider604 said:
You nailed it. The presentation fell on deaf ears, .
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I'm guessing it's the people in this thread who are not listening. ;)

A few years back...IPSC BC was also in a bit of ...ahem...turmoil. There was a light side...and a dark side.

I'm not suggesting one side was better than the other (I get along with most of them)...but I do know that Mark (and the SC for IPSC BC) was able to bridge the divide.

It's probably a skill you guys have to develop to get IDPA in at POCO...so why not listen to him when he offers you his advice...
 
Quigley said:
I'm guessing it's the people in this thread who are not listening. ;)

A few years back...IPSC BC was also in a bit of ...ahem...turmoil. There was a light side...and a dark side.

I'm not suggesting one side was better than the other (I get along with most of them)...but I do know that Mark (and the SC for IPSC BC) was able to bridge the divide.

It's probably a skill you guys have to develop to get IDPA in at POCO...so why not listen to him when he offers you his advice...
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OK, fair enough.

Consider this then, an open invitation to any and all who would like to offer their advice, I will get the pro-IDPA group together with you, for coffee/donuts. We have open-minds and ears that can hear.
 
easyrider604 said:
You nailed it. The presentation fell on deaf ears, ears that are not willing to listen. It is not the messenger, it is not the message, it is the deaf listener that is the problem. It is the job of the board to listen. For the record, not everyone on the board is deaf and close-minded....only some.

A board that is not receptive to the wishes of the members is not doing its job. What the board must remember is that they are there to serve the membership, not themselves. The running results of this poll bear out the fact that more people want IDPA than not.

You suggest someone else to make the presentation? Why? Who?

I am going to the range later this morning. If you are there, talk to me and I will tell you personally what has happened behind the scenes. PM me and I will give you my cell phone number so we can make contact at the range.
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AND I get #### like "Personal Vendetta", "#####ing" , "Special" , "History", "Club Policies and Procedures", and "Glad you're not shooting IPSC anymore."
Well, the previous few pages are exactly WHY, Gentlemen.
Remember those "Particular People" and "Puppet Masters" ? Well, there seems to be a LOT of "#####ing" going on about the "special" "history" of "club policies and procedures" and somebodies "personal vendetta" to run it THEIR way.
I TRIED to tell you , but no , you'd rather childishly insult me , at least I have the GUTS to put my NAME on the post .
But if you guys want to have your personal little meetings about behind the scenes , go right ahead ,we'd ALL like to know (some DO), but whatever .
It's just HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF AGAIN because nobody learns from it , STILL .
You've got to get rid of the old before bringing in the new.
But that's just my personal special #####ing vendetta on the history of club/IPSC policies and procedures and not shooting much IPSC anymore one's , opinion ! (Did I cover them all there ?)
And Murray would NEVER put something 'on paper', 'in forums', interviews ,tapes, TV, whatever, that could come back and 'bite him in the ass' , he's way to scared of being sued (or 'found out') to do that.
Until you LISTEN and LEARN.... Lotsa' Luck !
 
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