You're wrong, and proven so by the clear language of the law and my interaction with the RCMP. Please address those issues, and quote the relevant section of the law that addresses use of a mag rather than design and manufacture.
Idpa q&a
- Thread starter Northern Pirate
- Start date
You're wrong, and proven so by the clear language of the law and my interaction with the RCMP. Please address those issues, and quote the relevant section of the law that addresses use of a mag rather than design and manufacture.
That's exactly it. He is basically asking me to prove it's legal. That's like me asking him to prove that owning a computer is legal. Guess what, you can't. There isn't a document in existence that will say something to the effect of "You are allowed to possess a computer". If that were the case, then there wouldn't be enough paper on earth to define what is legal.
Instead, we define what is not legal. Loading a magazine, any magazine, with 400 rounds of ammo is perfectly legal. However, possessing a prohibited device is not. Possessing a .40cal mag that can only hold 10 .40cal rounds is not. That's all we're talking about here.
You boys are talking in circles. When you get back to the starting point admit you can load your gun with 10 + 1 rounds max in Canada. If, as has been suggested here you can load a 13 rds of 9MM in a .40 cal mag, use it and be legal you are wrong. The fact you can load more than 10 rds of a smaller caliber in a maga zine meant for a larger caliber is not material.
Bend the lips of a .40cal mag and you can make it work them work in a 9MM gun. Load that mag qith 13 rds and you are breaking the law. If you think otherwise ...good luck in court.
Take Care
Bob
Bend the lips of a .40cal mag and you can make it work them work in a 9MM gun. Load that mag qith 13 rds and you are breaking the law. If you think otherwise ...good luck in court.
Take Care
Bob
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
I mean exactly what I said...........
MOST POLICE OFFICERS WOULD NOT KNOW THAT IT IS LEGAL TO PUT 13 or 14 ROUNDS OF 9mm into an UNALTERED 10 ROUND .40 Magazine and use it in a 9mm Handgun?
That is not broad at all............actually it is quite specific.
As a Police officer I would have expected better.............err or maybe not I guess.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
See that bolded part?
THAT would be ALTERING a magazine away from the caliber that it was ORIGINALLY INTENDED to use........
That would make it an illegal magazine.
Did you see in my original post on this subject where I indicated the use of a 92F magazine? That is because the 92F and Glock are the ONLY two that I know in which a .40 cal magazine UNALTERED will hold and chamber a 9mm round and feed it properly in a 9mm slide.
I also know that Tanfoglio Limited Custom Magazines will not function in that matter and would have to be altered which would be illegal.
Stop trying to change the situation. Nobody mentioned anything about altering any mags.
Without supporting documentation, you cannot tell me what is illegal. Why don't you humour me and just provide the relevant sections of the CC or FA?
This thread is moving towards epicness......LOL.
BTW...I am in the 14 rounds of 9mm in an unaltered 40Cal. Mag. being legal camp......if in fact we are keeping score.
I too, would like the naysayers to quote the relevant pats of the Criminal Code or Firearms Act to PROVE their position. Not just spew heresy or faith based ideas.
BTW...I am in the 14 rounds of 9mm in an unaltered 40Cal. Mag. being legal camp......if in fact we are keeping score.
I too, would like the naysayers to quote the relevant pats of the Criminal Code or Firearms Act to PROVE their position. Not just spew heresy or faith based ideas.
First, as already pointed out no-one is talking about bending mag lips (except you) - it isn't necessary (for some .40/9mm combos) and we can agree that it would be a bad idea as it might be construed as re-designing/manufacturing the mag to create a prohibited device.
Second, you've just said "load" - an action with or use of a mag. Please quote the section of the CC or regulations that control the use of the mag instead of the design / manufacture. That's not "talking in circles" - it's a way out of the roundabout if you can find it. You can't.
Makes it more interesting
Also the HK P7M13 / P7M10, which works quite well.
FWIW, I had poor results with the Glock 40/9mm combo (constant misfeeds) and the Sig 40/9mm combo. There are manufacturing variances with mags, and you might have to try a few 40's to find one that works well enough with 9mm. A shooting buddy has reported good results with the Beretta combo.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Don't laugh...........I have had people tell me that this is illegal as well. It seems they were told this by 1) police officer friends of their and 2) their PAL instructor.
Awww c'mon acrashb. Scan and post that letter from the rcmp. I know you have it ... I've seen it myself.
This thread is the best cgn pissing contest EVAAAAR
I wonder though... Will Cannuck44 investigate further than asking a few street cops or a couple of fuddy PAL instructors...?
When told the truth by say.... 'someone from the rcmp forensic firearms dept or the Firearms Support Services Directorate....
Will he come back here and admit he was wrong?
This thread is the best cgn pissing contest EVAAAAR
I wonder though... Will Cannuck44 investigate further than asking a few street cops or a couple of fuddy PAL instructors...?
When told the truth by say.... 'someone from the rcmp forensic firearms dept or the Firearms Support Services Directorate....
Will he come back here and admit he was wrong?
I just run into this thread -
I support Storm's position based on the straight interpretation of the law. It is written this way for a reason.
The lawmaker obviously realized that in some occasions that a magazine designed for a specific catridge can hold other types of catridges. If the law is written such that a device can hold 10 rounds of ANY catridge is prohibited, then pretty much any magazine will be prohibited even if the magazine will not function with any other catridges. It will not be the intention of the law maker.
From another angle, the action of loading 11 rounds into a 10 round magazine is not illegal. It is only illegal by the fact that you are possessing a prohibited device if the magazine can hold 11rounds of a cartridge specifically designed for that magazine. If you load 11 rounds 9mm into a 10 rounds .40, you are still legally possessing a 10 round .40 magazine. You did not "create" a prohibit device by loading rounds. You don't build a car that runs on gasoline by filling it up diesel. The law has no "deeming" clause that deems the creation of a prohibited device by loading it up with a cartridge different from what it is originally designed for.
However, if you take a .40 magazine, and change the magazine follower to make it work 9mm, you will possibly get into legal ho####er as one can argue that the entirety of the magazine is no longer designed specifically for the calibre specified.
I support Storm's position based on the straight interpretation of the law. It is written this way for a reason.
The lawmaker obviously realized that in some occasions that a magazine designed for a specific catridge can hold other types of catridges. If the law is written such that a device can hold 10 rounds of ANY catridge is prohibited, then pretty much any magazine will be prohibited even if the magazine will not function with any other catridges. It will not be the intention of the law maker.
From another angle, the action of loading 11 rounds into a 10 round magazine is not illegal. It is only illegal by the fact that you are possessing a prohibited device if the magazine can hold 11rounds of a cartridge specifically designed for that magazine. If you load 11 rounds 9mm into a 10 rounds .40, you are still legally possessing a 10 round .40 magazine. You did not "create" a prohibit device by loading rounds. You don't build a car that runs on gasoline by filling it up diesel. The law has no "deeming" clause that deems the creation of a prohibited device by loading it up with a cartridge different from what it is originally designed for.
However, if you take a .40 magazine, and change the magazine follower to make it work 9mm, you will possibly get into legal ho####er as one can argue that the entirety of the magazine is no longer designed specifically for the calibre specified.
Very Educational
This is a great discussion fellas.
My 2 cents:
Follow the letter of the law.
The letters in that law indicate that a mag designed for .40cal which is limited to 10 rounds of said .40cal is legal, regardless of what I stuff it with. We are not talking about moding the mag, that is a whole nother bag of worms.... Stick with the facts....
Letter of the Law, don't over limit yourself fellas.
This is a great discussion fellas.
My 2 cents:
Follow the letter of the law.
The letters in that law indicate that a mag designed for .40cal which is limited to 10 rounds of said .40cal is legal, regardless of what I stuff it with. We are not talking about moding the mag, that is a whole nother bag of worms.... Stick with the facts....
Letter of the Law, don't over limit yourself fellas.
I'm in. Is this not the same logic with the 10 round Ar15 Pistole mags?
Is it the same. The LAR 15 mags were designed for a commonly available pistol in Canada. Their subsequent use in a different firearm doesn't come into play.
I'm in. Is this not the same logic with the 10 round Ar15 Pistole mags?
No the AR mags are marked "Pistol" and as such meet the qualifications laid down in the Act as they were designed for the AR 15 variant that was ruled a pistol. The Berretta Storm is the other long gun using pistol mags that has a capaciity limit of 10 rds.
Take Care
Bob
