I'm stuck, ACR vs XCR Help!

mikethebike said:
Yes I have looked at that beast, unfortunately it's not been tried and tested yet, and frankly it's a whole lot of money, essentially crowd-sourcing their build on that rifle for something that could easily just wind up shooting like an sg542 (4moa) could it ever be as great as a SR25, very likely, but also very risky it could wind up pretty lemonized. I'm going to wait for a 308 purchase, I still have a whole lot of research to do on that calibre, platform, ergos, action, and scopes.
I'm extremely risk averse these days since my Christensen Arms disaster.
Click to expand...

Good call. I'm a huge fan of semi auto 308 especially the AR308 rifles. That's a lot of money for a boutique rifle. Frankly I find it hard to believe that will stand as a non restricted rifle and not an AR variant. Especially considering how the term "variant" has been applied in the past to stuff that wasn't. With the AR308 there is no universal design ( I know you know this, but let me go on anyways). IE many brands uppers/lowers don't work with others. Many have piston systems that aren't the same operating system as the AR (ie direct impingement DI) and yet they are restricted. Heck even 22LR rifles that use blow back designs along with an upper/lower that won't work with a regular AR15 has in the past received BS "variant" status.

From what I see, it's a modified DPMS AR308 bolt (confirmed on another thread), Uses upper/lower with AR style although changed up and only one take down pin on the front with a different back connecting system that utilizes a spring loaded deal, uses AR308 furniture, mags, barrels. The only thing different is the modified bolt, AG42 based DI gas system, and the shape of the upper/lower with the back pin along with the trigger. There are as many or more differences with the HK MR308 to the AR10 along with other AR308 rifles also being significantly different.

Also It was supposed to be 2 weeks for the final review and it's been 3 with a possible 8 being stated on the main thread. I hope it stays non restricted, but honestly I'm not holding my breath. There is also the new legislation which has been held up a bit due to recent events. But.... there could be some very interesting options coming from that.. Worth waiting and seeing.

As for the 223 debate. The Swiss was an option but not now. Also while I have had 1 moa with mine, many aren't as accurate, plus the barrel heats up fairly quick since it's not a heavy profile. The SL8 and ACR are really the only two options I would consider with your list of requirements. The XCR, is a non contender to me. Not based on any political stuff, just based on the barrel retention system.
 
andrew3081 said:
We all don't another 10 years to wait.

And so what? Conversion for the XCR usually include a separate bolt. A brand new XCR barrel will be cheaper than building your own and you dont have to wait. Why not spend the money on other rifle and companies that actually care about their products if you have the choice?
You always mention accuracy when it comes to XCR. Everyone knows that XCR is not well known for its accuracy.


Where did you get the number of $2600 for XCR? XCR can be bought brand new for $2350 or less than $2000 on EE.
You are still looking at a price difference of $1000 between the NR ACR and NR XCR-L.
Click to expand...

If you don't have time to wait then pony up and spend the money for a conversion to be made. Think about it, an XCR factory kit is $700 and if you want a gunsmith to build you one for the ACR then you spend $1000ish. Not that big of a difference considering you are getting a hand built barrel to any specification (length and contour) you ask for and can sell the factory 16 inch barrel for a couple hundred dollars on the EE. If you want to know how much the most expensive conversion would be then ask Brian46 how much his 450 Bushmaster conversion cost him.

They don't include a spare bolt, they include a bolt for the caliber you choose because the x39 and the 6.8 don't use a 5.56 bolt. Same goes with the ACR. You just have to order a bolt and wait for it. Mine took a couple months to get here but I got one. My 6.8SPC barrel was around $400 and my 300BLK barrel was just under $600 complete with tax and the bolt for the 6.8 was somewhere around $200 if IIRC.

I mention accuracy because according to a lot of people on this site (aka the people that buy them) accuracy is an important factor when choosing a rifle. Most people seem to think that for anything over $1500 the rifle should magically be a sub moa shooter. I know this not to be reality but if I can get a rifle that will shoot groups half the size of the competition for a little more money then I'm going to go with the more accurate one.

If Rob arms cared about the rifle they would increase the QC and also come up with a better barrel retention system instead of doing revision after revision after revision and still not getting it right.

Sorry they must have dropped the price again recently, last I saw they were around $2600 for a new one. And for less than $2000 you are not getting the most recent version with the latest updates so who knows if you are buying someone else's problem child.

To me the $1000 extra was well worth it (even though it didn't cost me that much). By the time I had a non restricted 223 ACR with a Geissele super ACR trigger I was into it for $2550. I've spent quite a bit more since then on 2 more non restricted barrels and some parts to make the 6.8SPC work (not quite done yet) but to me it's money well spent.
 
Last edited:
I have to admit accuracy and reliability are very very important to me, much more than platform expected length of life. And yes I know accuracy and reliability usually operate on opposite axis.

I get frustrated very easily (because yes I'm a big baby) by an expensive platform that has failures and by weird spread patterns at 100 yards. I'm a mediocre shooter both with rifles and pistols, but if I can bring my Tavor under 2 moa, I think I can do my part on a rifle as long as it does what it should consistently.

Seems like I'm leaning towards the ACR.

Thanks everyone for your comments and opinions, I read and valued them all.
 
Why not consider ATRS's Modern Hunter? Price maybe a bit more, but probably more accurate, and easy to deal with the factory if you have problems. Seems most of ATRS's stuff is very sound so this one should be the same?
 
Accuarcy goes to ACR for sure.
Lower price and part support goes to XCR.
Reliability is a toss up between XCR and ACR.

I would suggest the OP to at least try to hold both XCR and ACR and see which one you like.
If you can shoot one, then that is better

Or you can wait for the beretta arx100.
 
emerson said:
Why not consider ATRS's Modern Hunter? Price maybe a bit more, but probably more accurate, and easy to deal with the factory if you have problems. Seems most of ATRS's stuff is very sound so this one should be the same?
Click to expand...

Except he sounds like he is looking for a 5.56/223 and has already stated that he wants to wait on the Modern Hunter till there are a few in circulation to see how they actually perform and not just put $3000+ down on a rifle no one has ever seen or held.
The Modern Hunter isn't even a real rifle until it is actually in production and being sold to the public as non restricted. Right now it's just a unicorn prancing around the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The concept is awesome but until they are actually available they are just a concept.
As Epoxy pointed out, better to wait and see what happens to the firearms laws in Canada in the next couple months than spend all that money on something that might not be needed. Not saying I have much confidence in the government taking the AR off the restricted by name list but it is a possibility and I'd hate to spend $3000 on a Modern Hunter now then have a DPMS LR-10 be classified the same at half the price and shoot groups just as tight.
 
cr5 said:
Where do you get $4100 from? Are you having it gold plated?
A new ACR can be bought for $2500 then add in your choice of non restricted barrel from $550-$1000 depending which route you go and you are at a maximum of $3500 plus tax. If you go the max route you now have a non restricted black rifle with a match grade barrel that will shoot sub moa with quality ammo. This can also be done for closer to $2600 if you don't mind picking up a used ACR for around $2000 off the EE (you're replacing the barrel anyway so who cares if it has a couple hundred rounds through it) then go with a Dlask barrel for $550.
If you go the XCR route you have a $2600 plus tax rifle that will shoot at best 2 moa but more likely 3 moa if you include all the the flyers they spit out and probably 6 moa for those that like Norinco ammo.
The XCR is a decent rifle but it still has to come up with a better barrel retention system to become a great rifle. The new keymod upper is a big step in the right direction and lightens up the rifle nicely but there is still more work to go on it.
Click to expand...
I just compared new to new, $2350+ 13 % hst XCR and that includes the adapter and CTR stock. The ACR is on sale this weekend for $2600+ 13% hst . A previous poster said it cost him a $1000 for the barrel and install. Also there's gonna be some shipping involved. If I were to compare used to used ? There was an XCR -l with a new barrel , on the EE a couple of days ago for $1650.all in. I have no doubt the ACR is more accurate with good hand loads , but most people are using AE for fun shooting, so how much does it really matter if the ACR shoots 1 1/2 moa with AE ammo and the XCR shoots 2 1/2 moa with the same ammo, although tone is more accurate than the other, neither is really that accurate at all. 1/2 moa , or less , to me would be accurate , and for that you probably need a bolt. I had enough in my budget for the XCR, I like the look of it , so that's why I chose it.
 
Brianma65 said:
I just compared new to new, $2350+ 13 % hst XCR and that includes the adapter and CTR stock. The ACR is on sale this weekend for $2600+ 13% hst . A previous poster said it cost him a $1000 for the barrel and install. Also there's gonna be some shipping involved. If I were to compare used to used ? There was an XCR -l with a new barrel , on the EE a couple of days ago for $1650.all in. I have no doubt the ACR is more accurate with good hand loads , but most people are using AE for fun shooting, so how much does it really matter if the ACR shoots 1 1/2 moa with AE ammo and the XCR shoots 2 1/2 moa with the same ammo, although tone is more accurate than the other, neither is really that accurate at all. 1/2 moa , or less , to me would be accurate , and for that you probably need a bolt. I had enough in my budget for the XCR, I like the look of it , so that's why I chose it.
Click to expand...

I've already said the XCR is a good rifle, I just think that for a little more money there are better options. Enjoy your XCR, I hope you got one of the good ones.
I don't pay HST luckily so, would it be legal for me to arrange with guys to buy and ship a rifle to them for exactly what it costs me here? I'm surprised more people don't look at this option. It definitely doesn't cost the $200-$300 more to ship it across the country even if you pay Canada Post's ridiculous insurance. Pay them extra to make sure they do what you are paying them to do in the first place insurance.
Next time you're buying a new firearm PM me and we'll see how much it will save you. As long as the warranty is transferable I can't see any downside to this.
 
Where in the hell did you get a new xcr, dlask adapter, buffer tube and magpul ctr for $2350 plus tax?
I paid $2350 for my xcr, $60 for the adapter, $20 for the buffer tube, $60 for a used ctr. Man did i get ripped off lol
Good thing i sold the fast stock for $150
 
Last edited:
zeuce said:
Where in the hell did you get a new xcr, dlask adapter, buffer tube and magpul ctr for $2350 us tax?
I paid $2350 for my xcr, $60 for the adapter, $20 for the buffer tube, $60 for a used ctr. Man did i get ripped off lol
Good thing i sold the fast stock for $150
Click to expand...
;) you gotta wheel and deal dude. Actually you got yours for $10 cheaper.
 
mikethebike said:
I have to admit accuracy and reliability are very very important to me, much more than platform expected length of life. And yes I know accuracy and reliability usually operate on opposite axis.

I get frustrated very easily (because yes I'm a big baby) by an expensive platform that has failures and by weird spread patterns at 100 yards. I'm a mediocre shooter both with rifles and pistols, but if I can bring my Tavor under 2 moa, I think I can do my part on a rifle as long as it does what it should consistently.

Seems like I'm leaning towards the ACR.

Thanks everyone for your comments and opinions, I read and valued them all.
Click to expand...
whatever you choose , your the one who gotta be happy with it. If not ,just sell it and buy something else,after all it's only a gun. It gets kinda confusing when you look for facts and get a lot of one sided personal reviews. I have no experience with either , but after a couple months of reading reviews and posts on here , as it's a bush gun for me , I gave up some accuracy and maybe the odd fte,etc for a new scope , accessories ,and some ammo. When or if I get bored with it, I'll sell it and try something different. Good luck and have fun with whatever you get.
 
Brianma65 said:
;) you gotta wheel and deal dude. Actually you got yours for $10 cheaper.
Click to expand...
This is true lol! If i could have got it all in one package tho i would have. Would have saved the month and a half of rounding up the parts lol
 
Tough call. I've been debating the same thing as well. I personally would be more happy in the long run owning an ACR, so I'm thinking when i do pull the trigger, it will mostly likely be on the Bushy. Play with it as restricted for a while then when I have the funds get the barrel swap. That or scoop one up off the EE in the future! Good luck man!
 
Brianma65 said:
I just compared new to new, $2350+ 13 % hst XCR and that includes the adapter and CTR stock. The ACR is on sale this weekend for $2600+ 13% hst . A previous poster said it cost him a $1000 for the barrel and install. Also there's gonna be some shipping involved. If I were to compare used to used ? There was an XCR -l with a new barrel , on the EE a couple of days ago for $1650.all in. I have no doubt the ACR is more accurate with good hand loads , but most people are using AE for fun shooting, so how much does it really matter if the ACR shoots 1 1/2 moa with AE ammo and the XCR shoots 2 1/2 moa with the same ammo, although tone is more accurate than the other, neither is really that accurate at all. 1/2 moa , or less , to me would be accurate , and for that you probably need a bolt. I had enough in my budget for the XCR, I like the look of it , so that's why I chose it.
Click to expand...
my acr with the limited testing I have done so far is under 1 moa with factory ammo. Herron arms NR conversion. The XCR L I had the displeasure of dealing with for many months was 2moa at best with premium factory ammo but realistically more like a 3moa gun on average.
 
2 moa at best is about what mine does and for a battle rifle thats damn fine by me. if you can find a bad guys head smaller than that id be suprised LMAO! Its well known that the XCR and sub moa is just not in the cards. I have a bolt gun to do that job.
 
I read the 8 pages, just to sum up ACR non-restricted is not in stock anywhere in the country. The enhanced ACR which is restricted is on sale this weekend but a non-restricted barrel cannot be purchased for this to convert it? How often do ACR NR come up on the EE and what do they go for?
Thanks
 
BlackWatch said:
I read the 8 pages, just to sum up ACR non-restricted is not in stock anywhere in the country. The enhanced ACR which is restricted is on sale this weekend but a non-restricted barrel cannot be purchased for this to convert it? How often do ACR NR come up on the EE and what do they go for?
Thanks
Click to expand...

You have to have it made by a gunsmith.

Prices on the EE..well...goes without saying they can vary quite a bit. IIRC there's one for sale right now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom