Imagine the following scenario...wrt hi cap AR Mags

Nope, you wouldn't make a dime, because they would be confiscated as soon as the container hits the Canadoan soil, someone already tried with aftermarket AIA mags.
 
gorky said:
Believe it or not, there are a lot of business people on this forum that understand the concepts you are talking about. We are not ignorant of R&D costs. We are just not very tolerant of being told that $200 is a fair price for a magazine to recoup R&D costs. $2 million gross off of 10k mag sales will have the appearance of price gouging, no matter how your dress it up. If your material cost of $10/mag (which I think is high), you will be netting $1.9 million off magazine sales to offset your R&D, nevermind your sales from the rifles.

There are reasons why Canadian manufacturers have not taken on this project (and you can be sure many have considered it). My understanding is that the R&D is the easier part of it. The legal side of the rifle/mags/magazine limit is an issue. Dropping $100-$500k on R&D is a bit of a harder pill to swallow if one malicious ruling by the RCMP can make the entire project an exercise in futility.

Then again, there is plenty of speculation that at least one Canadian manufacturer is pursuing this course of action. I would not be surprised if we see something on the market within a year.
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Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to say, it's not about the magazines, it's about the process of making them available to Canadians.

In the price of the magazines you would also have to build in some insurance for the RCMP to ruin the whole scheme.

Just so you know, my back of the envelope calculations were about $500,000 to set up the production line and about $200 profit per rifle, which is not going to pay for setting up the production line.

It would be difficult to sell the rifles because the market is flooded with good varmint rifles and few people would want one with a 30 round magazine.

Therefore, you might even have to sell the rifles below cost.

Basically, you would have to make the $500,000 cost for designing the rifle and setting up the production line from the magazines you sell. And realistically, although I said 10,000 magazines, realistically, you are probably only going to sell about 5000. That means $100 from each magazine goes to the cost of setting up the rifle production.

Since good AR15 mags are about $50, you are going to be selling the mags for about $150 to break even.

As for the rifle, you would have to design it so that only the proprietary mags fit it, and an regular AR15 magazine doesn't. You would just have to make sure that the proprietary magazines fit most AR15 applications.
 
gorky said:
$200 per mag is a bit steep.

Put it this way though. Say you charged $50/mag, you would sell $200 worth of mags easy (hell, you would probably sell $600 worth of mags easy).

Hell, there is a dealer right now selling 12/13rd mags for $50 and they are uber-backordered
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Excuse my ignorance, but what may are you referring too? I thought I was doing well with the lar mags
 
iamcanjim said:
Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to say, it's not about the magazines, it's about the process of making them available to Canadians.

In the price of the magazines you would also have to build in some insurance for the RCMP to ruin the whole scheme.

Just so you know, my back of the envelope calculations were about $500,000 to set up the production line and about $200 profit per rifle, which is not going to pay for setting up the production line.

It would be difficult to sell the rifles because the market is flooded with good varmint rifles and few people would want one with a 30 round magazine.

Therefore, you might even have to sell the rifles below cost.

Basically, you would have to make the $500,000 cost for designing the rifle and setting up the production line from the magazines you sell. And realistically, although I said 10,000 magazines, realistically, you are probably only going to sell about 5000. That means $100 from each magazine goes to the cost of setting up the rifle production.

Since good AR15 mags are about $50, you are going to be selling the mags for about $150 to break even.

As for the rifle, you would have to design it so that only the proprietary mags fit it, and an regular AR15 magazine doesn't. You would just have to make sure that the proprietary magazines fit most AR15 applications.
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If you were able to make a legal 30rd mag that would work in ARs, you would sell more than 5000 of them. A lot more. IF they were priced right. There is more competition for 10+rd mags that work in ARs, but some (like the most recent) are being sold at $50 and are being sold out. From the sounds of it, the next batch is already sold out to backorders.

Also, if your rifle is of sound design and quality, you should be able to recoup costs there. Want a free tip ? Make it look tactical without making it an AR-variant/replica/lookalike or whatever synonym the RCMP can muster. Marlin keeps doing it and I can't believe some of the sh*t they come out with that still sells (tactical lever gun FFS). Put a decent barrel on it, 30rd mags, integral rail would be a bonus, and you should do well.

Again, the big question is how the RCMP would handle it. Cross every "i", dot every "t", and do it by the book. Canadian gun owners will love you for it. But if it looks like you are trying to screw them, price gouge them, or put one over on them, Canadian gun owners will crucify you. Just ask some of the recently departed CGN vendors.
 
The key would be the number of rifles you would have to manufacture to make the scheme work. If you only had to make 50, make 50 custom prototypes of the highest quality and sell them for $2K. Easy. If you have to make 500 of them, that's going to be tricky, because then you are competing with the big boys who can easily undercut you.
 
R + D ???? For what?

To make a square hole into a round hole? Are you serious?

There is NO R & D cost, you just use the same blueprint as everyone else form china to Korea to Singapore uses, but you make a round hole.

It is only $2 a mag. Where do you get $10 from?

Only the people trying to sell them here in Canada make up absurd costs for Magazines.

Too much Imagining for me. Why even state they have anything to do with AR's??

And why eastern block or China?? What has that got to do with anything.
 
gorky said:
$200 per mag is a bit steep.

Put it this way though. Say you charged $50/mag, you would sell $200 worth of mags easy (hell, you would probably sell $600 worth of mags easy).

Hell, there is a dealer right now selling 12/13rd mags for $50 and they are uber-backordered
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Did I miss something? Since when can we have 12/13 mags and what are they? Are those pistol mags for 7.62x39 XCR or something?

I sure as hell wouldn't pay $200 for a 30 round mag either.
Our laws are stupid and don't affect the criminals in any way but I'm not willing to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to sneak a couple extra rounds into a mag. I'll stick to the LAR mags and pinned 5/30's until the world ends and I can drill the rivets or when the law makers wake up and let us have our 30 rounders back. Probably a long wait for either scenario to happen.
Look at the bright side, having low capacity mags makes us practice mag changes that much more. We should all be experts by now.

Until the laws change you can always get around the mag limits by joining the military or police.
 
iamzill said:
Bingo
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Same idea as using a Glock .40 mag in your Glock 9mm.
I know there is no "legal" restriction for doing yet this but I'm thinking that if someone were to be running off 13 rounds while local LEO's were at the range you would probably get some unwanted attention, and I doubt it will be long before the loophole gets closed. Best to be discrete about it when at the range.
 
It's no loophole. It is as the law was written.
It doesn't matter what you put in it. It doesn't matter what you put it in.
It only matters that it fits the legal amount of the caliber it was designed for.
Period.

It is actually very carefully worded.
 
cr5 said:
Same idea as using a Glock .40 mag in your Glock 9mm.
I know there is no "legal" restriction for doing yet this but I'm thinking that if someone were to be running off 13 rounds while local LEO's were at the range you would probably get some unwanted attention, and I doubt it will be long before the loophole gets closed. Best to be discrete about it when at the range.
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Except it isn't a loophole, it is how the legislation is written and the RCMP can do SFA about changing the wording. They may wish they could, but they are stuck with it.


Mark
 
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cr5 said:
...and I doubt it will be long before the loophole gets closed. Best to be discrete about it when at the range.
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Actually, further to what mmattockx pointed out - the RCMP actually released a specific bulletin that expressly covered this - and also went so far as to include specific examples including the 9mm/.40S&W magazine.

Did I mention we can now have 18 rounds legally in our AR c/o the new .50 Beowulf magazines? I believe I did... :p
 
blaxsun said:
Actually, further to what mmattockx pointed out - the RCMP actually released a specific bulletin that expressly covered this - and also went so far as to include specific examples including the 9mm/.40S&W magazine.

Did I mention we can now have 18 rounds legally in our AR c/o the new .50 Beowulf magazines? I believe I did... :p
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Well I guess I better start buying Glock 22 mags instead of 17 and I'll have to find a few of the .50 Beowulf mags as well.
If they will let this through then there shouldn't be any reasonable reason not to just let us drill out the rivet and enjoy them they way they were designed to be used. Oh silly me, there I go thinking logically about Canadian firearms regulations again.
Hmmm, My sub 2000 takes Glock 17 mags so that should be pretty fun out in the bush with a G22 mag.
 
cr5 said:
Well I guess I better start buying Glock 22 mags instead of 17 and I'll have to find a few of the .50 Beowulf mags as well.
If they will let this through then there shouldn't be any reasonable reason not to just let us drill out the rivet and enjoy them they way they were designed to be used. Oh silly me, there I go thinking logically about Canadian firearms regulations again.

Hmmm, My sub 2000 takes Glock 17 mags so that should be pretty fun out in the bush with a G22 mag.
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You may want to try one first. Sometimes they don't always perform as advertised. Case-in-point: HK P2000 and Beretta - works flawlessly with the .40S&W mags. Steyr M9-A1, the .40S&W mags have wider feed lips and won't hold 9mm. I've heard of the occasional feed issue in the Glocks.

Yes, well... There's a difference between exploiting the law as written and high-capacity magazines which are prohibited under law.
 
blaxsun said:
You may want to try one first. Sometimes they don't always perform as advertised. Case-in-point: HK P2000 and Beretta - works flawlessly with the .40S&W mags. Steyr M9-A1, the .40S&W mags have wider feed lips and won't hold 9mm. I've heard of the occasional feed issue in the Glocks.
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I can confirm that there are feed issues with putting 9mm in a .40S&W mag in an HK USP as well. Works for a few rounds and then fails to feed.
 
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